Dominos?

G'day 7UP. When I made that comment awhile back about Israel being co-erced somewhat by the Yanks it wasn't an original point (I quoted it from the BBC at the time). After Mzz Rice's recent visit across the board it certainly is no suprise that things are happening (or is it just me ?). As I'm sure you're aware Egypt recieved annually a sum from the US not too unadjacent to that recieved by Israel ( deals done years afore). Rice is regarded as speaking the words that Bush himself speaks, ie, no Bullshitting or in-between compramises etc, and I feel the buck is beginning to stop if you get my drift, in other words, arses behind the scenes are getting kicked big style, and no more pussy footing about is being tolerated by the US from 'ANYBODY'.


Fritz tHIS IS JUST MY INTERPRETATION AND i#M PROBABLY AS ALWAYS WRONG, INNIT ?

No, I'd say you're right like sometimes.

Strangely enough I met an Egyptian colonel on business back around 1990 who told me that there would be peace in the Mid-East because the USA and the Soviets were no longer prepare to finance war. Sadly this was premature.

Of course the US is threatening Egypt that they'll zip up the old wallet but, I'm sure that we'd all agree, that's better than bombing shit out of them.

What amazes me is the distance that the US foreign policy has shifted from a Euro-style clinging to stability (no matter what unsavouries they have to sleep with) to a pushing for freedom. In Egypt in particular, if democracy comes there must be a considerable risk of the Islamists gaining control. At least that's my (limited) understanding.

There's a long way to go but Dubya, the evil Bush-Hitler, could still go down as one of the greatest US pressies of all time - in direct defiance of the views of most of this forum. I wouldn't half laugh.

Still, mustn't gloat until they really allow the fat Egyptian lady to sing.

Regards
Steve M

PS: I got your point, Frisky-Burly. I'm sure that the US is leaning on Israel too. Quite right. They need strong guidance, support, and their heads banging together with the Palestinians as much as the rest of them.

Quite right too, and don't forget that profoundly true statement from Homer "Trying is the first step towards failure ".


Fritz Von Africa's a big Continent innit

That's a Devilish postcount you've got there, did you know it's written on the Pope's Mitre ?

Can't have that then.

Without a doubt big moves are afoot and only the brave or the very stupid want to end up in the isolation ward. Mr putin looked distinctly concretelike on the podium with the President; more so than usual. How strong was his message!!

quote:

Originally posted by 7V:
I'm sure that the US is leaning on Israel too. Quite right. They need strong guidance, support, and their heads banging together with the Palestinians as much as the rest of them.

Agreed - shame though that Islamic Jihad has chosen this moment to throw a deadly spanner in the works..

JR

Apparently, another factor is that Condee cancelled her planned visit to Egypt because they brutally 'interrogated' Ayman Nour, the opposition leader now on hunger strike in Egyptian prison.

The Washington Post reports that for Condee to visit other major countries in the Middle East and miss out Egypt would have been a major diplomatic slight (whereas they never really fancied Colin Powell).

Regards
Steve M

quote:

Originally posted by JonR:
Agreed - shame though that Islamic Jihad has chosen this moment to throw a deadly spanner in the works..

Are we surprised?

Steve M

I decided upon a dominos pizza this evening probably as a direct result of the this thread title, it was fucking awful, thanks very much V boy.

quote:

Originally posted by 7V:
Are we surprised?

I suppose not. I should imagine there was always bound to be at least one terrorist outfit in the Middle East who must have refused to buy into the ceasefire agreed between Abu Mazan and Sharon.

One wonders (in exasperation) how the Israelis might retaliate....

JR

quote:

Originally posted by garyi:
I decided upon a dominos pizza this evening probably as a direct result of the this thread title, it was fucking awful, thanks very much V boy.

Garyi, I keep telling you, go Pizza Hut!

Here we are 12 hours later, and its still repeating on me. I had one of those doulble decadence things, it had goo in the middle that they said was cheese. It wasn't any cheese I was aware of.

Yuk

quote:

Originally posted by JonR:
One wonders (in exasperation) how the Israelis might retaliate....

I believe that they are and will continue to act with considerable restraint.

However, the fact that terrorist incidents have decreased significantly over the past several months indicates that the tactics employed have been effective.

There is perhaps an implicit assumption in your comment (and your exasperation) that peace will come when Israel stops reacting to terrorist atrocities. There is evidence to suggest that the opposite is true. The warmth of the reception that Sharon received on his recent trip to Egypt, including the displaying of the Israeli flag in an Arab land, was unprecedented. Strength is respected.

It is largely for this reason that I believe that US pressure on Israel is required. Clearly there is no peace without stopping military action, on both sides (by definition). My opinion is that the incidence of terrorism is reduced by strength, not weakness. Therefore, when the most powerful and richest country in the world is seen to apply pressure on Israel, Israel can turn the other cheek without appearing weak.

The issue is one of how one deals with the attacks by those organisations that are violently opposed to both the existence of Israel and the 'two state solution'. The closer peace appears, the more they will be active.

The recent local democratic elections in Palestine where Hamas achieved so much success has gone a long way to persuade that organisation that they can do well under democracy and so there is considerable hope there.

Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and other Syrian and Iranian based terror groups are becoming increasingly isolated by the actions of the USA and the recent events in Lebanon.

These things, plus the death of Arafat, mean that there is more hope of peace now than there has been for many years. There are grounds for all sides to be positive.

Regards
Steve M

Steve,

I admire your optimism and hope it's justified. I can only imagine IJ's tactics were to provoke so restarting the bloody war all over again but let's hope Israel don't fall for it and, as you say, "continue to acti with considerable restraint."

Cheers,

JR

It's also interesting that both Israel and the Palestinians are pointing the finger at Hezbollah and the Lebanese based groups.

Whether or not these groups were responsible (this time) is besides the point. The Palestinians cannot be held responsible for the actions of foreign terrorists, pressure mounts on Syria as the main sponsor and both the Israelis and Palestinians are let off the hook.

I have been informed by two interesting articles on the subject:

Peace will prevail by David Aaronovitch in today's Observer.

Israel Draws the Line by Charles Krauthammer in the Washington Post (you have to register but it's worth it).

Returning to the main theme of this thread, I hope that the mounting pressure on Syria will bear fruit. The falling of that regime will mean that the game is finally up for fascism in the Middle East.

Regards
Steve M

PS: I've had my hopes for peace dashed to often to truly consider myself an optimist. I am however a subscriber to the philosophy of positivity.