HDX rip better than iTunes rip?

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who know binary and those who don't!

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Meredith:

quote:

Originally posted by haroldbudd:
back off topic, my girlfriend recently got a Lieca digital

Bit imperfect copy?

Bit imperfect copy = frenum trunco effingo

Haroldbudd.

I'll let you in on a secret.
I am deaf. But just like anybody else on any internet fora, I am entitled to my opinions.

Seriously, I am not certain when I'm gonna get back on the HD saddle. I'm lazy, so an HDX type of solution is more appealing to me now. ( let someone figure it out and all I have to do is to stick a disc )

Also, my interest has shifted to rip records in a hi-res rather than ripping CDs, atm.

p.s. why don't you try to shoot some Nait 3R pics with your GF's Leica? I am curious to see how it handles macro functions.

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Originally posted by kuma:
....
p.s. why don't you try to shoot some Nait 3R pics with your GF's Leica? I am curious to see how it handles macro functions.

Kuma, I think I have already taken the best Nait3 pic I will ever take, and the camera was given to me by my bank ( something to do with points and transfers...don't know ) so I have no idea what the settings were on it, but the pic actually has something to do with this thread , in a strange way, as none of us at the time were concerned with such things as bit-rates , or "rips" or "offset". We were completely enjoying music, which is the whole point right?
I know the Nait is blurry, but it did a stunning job that night as it is now, Flac, Vinyl, mp3, aac, bit-perfect......bring it on. I am new to Naim and I am very low on the Naim ladder but that's it, it's only up from here.

OK, good weekend all for real now, Monday-ripping experiments

atb

Cheers

no more digital, it's vinyl now for the next few hours

quote:

I remain humbled by the challenges of music reproduction.

Ripping data from a CD to a hard drive is firmly in the realm of computer science. It can be proved accurate or inaccurate down to the last bit - there are no 'shades of grey' and so cannot be linked to the challenges of music reproduction. If some people really are hearing a genuine difference then they are simply not comparing like-for-like rips. There can be no other explanation.

I would run thread this past my computer-scientist brovver but it would only serve to reinforce his notion that us audiophiles are crackpots.


Mr Tibbs

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Those who (like me) have had some mathematical training (or training in some of the other hard sciences) will know that the beauty of these disciplines is that there is no room for subjectivity and those who try to rely on such arguments are quickly dismissed.

Well explained, can I suggest then that you try one of the computer audio sites, as the topics may lean more to your particular area of interest (itunes /eac etc ) and you may find others who like you who have "trained" in the appropriate fields.

Personally I must admit to not being obsessed about the ripping method, I just know what I like to listen too. For me, the HDX combines ease of use with great sound, which I suspect for many people is one of the main buying points.


Barrie

quote:

I find there are subtleties which go beyond the obvious.

Well said, I am in total agreement with you. When I was first buying my Naim kit, I actually was not going to get a CD player and just use the mac, so that is what I took along with me to audition the S/Nait with ( luckily I also took a couple of CD's for comparative playing )- to cut a long story short, my girlfriend strongly preferred the sound from the CD over the mac so that was that.

Personally I love the convenience of digital and we use it for internet radio,podcasts,background music, dinner parties etc but I will wait until my next upgrade to a great sounding, simple to use, user friendly ripping piece of kit - whatever that may be

Barrie



Barrie

I've been following this thread last couple of days as i can't imagine myself moving away from a mac/dac combo, (but at the same time i can't imagine myself re-ripping all my cd's!).

So I downloaded XLD yesterday, set the preferences as suggested and compared it to rips performed in Max and itunes. I haven't made an in depth comparison yet, but initial reactions are I can't hear any difference. I'll download the files to my iaudio an test them through my shure headphones.

a few observations:

1. boy its takes XLD ages to rip a cd! - if you've got plenty of discs to convert i'm predicting a dark cloud will quickly descend upon you within the first few days. Good luck with that - I'll only be using XLD to rip future cd purchases.

if you've got anything like a dirty or scratched disc it may well decide to take the best part of a day to think about ripping track 1! and when it returns a bad report are you going to try again?

2. if you've spent thousands on top end naim gear and you want to recreate that digitally, (which you obviously do), the debates surrounding itunes, XLD or EAC probably won't concern you, as you'll more than likely end up buying an HDX and sticking a naim dac on the end.

quote:

Originally posted by baz100:

quote:

Those who (like me) have had some mathematical training (or training in some of the other hard sciences) will know that the beauty of these disciplines is that there is no room for subjectivity and those who try to rely on such arguments are quickly dismissed.

Well explained, can I suggest then that you try one of the computer audio sites, as the topics may lean more to your particular area of interest (itunes /eac etc ) and you may find others who like you who have "trained" in the appropriate fields.
Barrie

Let me emphasize that I am not saying that I have any special training in the fields of iTunes/EAC etc - I don't.

Mr. Tibbs' contribution above better explains the point that I was inelegantly trying to make - the question at hand (can iTunes produce rips that are identical in all respects to those produced by EAC or other programs?) is one that can be answered in totally objective terms and is not a question of individual interpretation.

Subjective preferences can legitimately influence whether you like one means of playback better than another (HDX vs. iTunes etc) but not the question of whether two computer files are identical.

And if they are identical and are played back via the same playback mechanism (DAC, etc), the sonic results should be identical. If they (genuinely) sound different, the files must be different - it is as simple as that. Unlike people, DACs and electronic circuits don't have brand loyalty or other biases.

The question of blind tests was briefly brought up earlier - I would love to see those claiming to hear differences prove this in such a situation (blind testing).

quote:

Kent Poon Is EAC really better than iTunes

Make sure to read this from the same source. 'Ten Questions about Computer Audio with Vincent Sanders and John Hughes of VRS Audio Solutions' and please, try EAC for yourselves. Just be certain to set up the offsets etc. as recommended or the results will be incorrect. Happened to me once when I lost settings. Lack of imperical evidence on power cables never stopped us either. That one actually bothers me a bit more, LOL but I can sure here it and I guarantee it will null out a cheap cable on an AC signal or almost any audio cable will null another yet we like our cables. Perhaps some setups get better results from Itunes than others and is causing this discrepancy. I certainly haven't heard every MAC. Like I said, I'm no longer offering opinions on this but maybe we're asking the wrong question like, why are some getting differences and not others? Do some Macs rip better? Is Itunes playback an issue? etc.

Jazzfan, stop by the shop and I'll let you blind test me. Just let me know that your coming so I have a TC etc. on hand. We'll rip and play from scratch and use neither Itunes or HDX for playback through a SN. Bring your DAC too.

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Originally posted by js:
Jazzfan, stop by the shop and I'll let you blind test me. Just let me know that your coming so I have a TC etc. on hand. We'll rip and play from scratch and use neither Itunes or HDX for playback.

I have toyed with this idea in the past, as I do visit Chicago from time to time. In fact, maybe I can also bring a certain brand of DAC with me and we can include that in the testing as well? That should be very interesting indeed.

That would be good fun. I think once together we would come closer on few things or at least understand better how we got to where we are. Worst case, we'll play you some masters and that's not so bad. If you bring the DAC, drop it early and we'll let it warm up a bit for a listen after lunch. I wouldn't mind hearing another sample. If you don't have much time, stop in anyway for a listen. I promise I wont try and sell you anything as I suspect you have a local dealer.

Sounds like a deal - I expect to be there at some time in the next 2-3 months and I'll call ahead to let you know.

I was actually there in December but the visit was too brief - I'll try to arrange an extra day or so next time.

quote:

Originally posted by jazzfan:
Sounds like a deal - I expect to be there at some time in the next 2-3 months and I'll call ahead to let you know.

I was actually there in December but the visit was too brief - I'll try to arrange an extra day or so next time.

Sounds good. Ken has a great jazz collection too. I'm sure you guys will get on great.

I'm always looking to expand my musical interests so jazz need not be the only type of music on the agenda. Looking forward to the visit however.

I think we are all looking forward to the subsequent posts!

It's not going to be a shootout. Just a freindly info seaking venture for us both. Jazzman, If you have a Macbook, that might be handy as it may be doing better rips than Itunes in a PC. I can't imagine why but it's only fair to consider that there may be more going on here as well. We can rip and transfer to a variety of playback options in either direction and it can be however private you prefer. We can do drives, lossless, etc. Whatever you like.

At the end of the day, it's not about absolutes but what makes you happy. It's nice to know but some things aren't for everybody. Better's not meaningful to someone that won't use it that certain way.

JS,

That's for sure. I need to start wearing some cotton in my ears so I won't hear anymore differences. I've come to the conclusion that this would be far cheaper.

BTW, tried the Q4 Ref shelf. Bummer, it was a big improvement in presence, warmth, soundstage. Basically improved all aspects of the presentation. Even my dad could tell.

He had a great time talking/listening with Ken on Saturday. Heard they talked about basketball, George Mikan, etc... besides. Please thank Ken again for me.

PS: Got a Fraim to home demo?

js - I do have a MacBook and will bring it along with me.

quote:

Originally posted by jazzfan:
js - I do have a MacBook and will bring it along with me.

Jazzfan, don't forget the Lavry as well. I didn't mean this as an affront, just that if your are going to do alot of comparisons of files, software, etc... mind as well bring that as well. I know JS would be into hearing another DA-10 to see if it differs at all from what we heard from the unit we had.

Gary, just let me know when you want to try it and I'll bring some fraim from home.

Jazzfan, please send email to js95@sbcglobal.net .

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Originally posted by jazzfan:
It seems to me that the only effective way to counter this evidence is by citing an equally objective and scientific study and not by simply claiming "trust us", etc.

Is that not the epitome of "Flat-earthieness" and by extension the general atmosphere of this Forum?

Which I find EXTREMELY refreshing....

I much prefer questions/comments concerning how the music is conveyed, rather than the describing of mid bass humps, graphs and the results of electronic ears (sound meters).

quote:

yet there may be some unknown variable we may discover though, and hopefully will

Agreed. The ability to replicate these perceived differences is required in order to isolate the variations in performance ("Trade Member" or otherwise).

I've heard variations between two files ripped from same disc on same drive using same ripping application–kinda drives one nuts at first encounter.

Several posters have reported hearing differences in the (playback) sound or musical qualities of various rips, formats. I know it is hard to describe perceived sound with words - BUT - could you please describe the kinds of differences you hear? Are these differences localized or throughout a song?