Rattle Mahler 8

Hello Tam,

Another Mahler thread is always most welcome!

I'm very much looking forward to hearing Rattle's new recording - first of all because I've never got on with the 8th and I know it's my fault not Mahler's (must try harder!), secondly because I admire Rattle's Mahler anyway, and thirdly, I gather he has cast Juliane Banse who is my lovely little sweetheart and is the light of my life...!!!!

I'll report back when I've heard it.

Cheers,

EW

We're probably coming from slightly different angles then. The 8th was my first taste of Mahler and I've always loved it.

The Rattle has a lot going for it (it's on one disc for starters - and I can't stand changing discs mid-symphony, tough when you're a mahler fan ). The only downside for me is the opening (doesn't quite have the sheer power of some such as sinopoli or solti), and there's a little too much sibilance here. But overall the voices are really good and it's a fine symphony.

I'm with you on Rattle and Mahler (alongside Abbado he's probably the finest Mahlerian around today), 2 and 5 are especially fine. I've never really been convinced by his 10 (or anyone elses for that matter, but that's another thread).

How are his other recordings, I'd be curious to know what he does with 3, 4, 6 and 7 (especially since EMI seem to be clearing out his back catalogue at the moment).


regards,

Tam

I've read every review that I can, and Rattle's Mahler 8 is Gramophone's CD of the month (April), but haven't heard it. The Times on Friday preferred it to Kent Nagano's concurrent offering, but the reviewer was still somewhat underwhelmed.

If I had to summarise what I've read (but, I stress, not heard), the view is that it's one of the best since Solti/Chicago SO, recorded in glorious analogue, at white heat, in Decca's old stamping ground in Vienna in 1971. But, if you can only stretch to one recording, the Solti (also on one CD, but at mid-price) still leads the field by some margin.

Today's "Sunday Times" gives it 4 stars and CD of the week status, for what that's worth.

Graham,

FWIW, I think you're probably right. Solti's is magnificent. Sadly my version (part of the box set of all his mahler) is split onto two discs

That said, the Rattle is well worth a listen. I also think Sinopoli's digital account is very strong indeed (as I've already mentioned).

Still, I think the disc is well worth owning (even if I might not choose it if I could only have one 8th).

regards,

Tam

Tam

I'm trying, REALLY trying, to like Mahler 8. I've got the Solti disc blasting away as I write this. But, try as I might, I've never been able to come to terms with it. So I shan't be in the queue to buy Rattle's new version.

But I do at least have a recording of Mahler 8 on CD, something I've refused to do with Mahler 7, which I find even more difficult.

I love all the others and have several versions of them, including five (at the last count) of Das Lied Von Der Erde: Carlos Kleiber/VSO, Bernstein/VPO, Haitink/CGO, Walter/VPO and Klemperer/PO. If I ever had to do a Gilbert Kaplan, it would have to be the Ninth, of which I have recordings by Walter/VPO (1938), Barbirolli/BPO, Bernstein/NYPO, Haitink/CGO and Karajan/BPO (the famous live account). I may have missed a couple.

My point is not to willy-wave, but to try to show that I'm something of a Mahler nut. But 7 and 8 have always sounded suspiciously like noise to me, and I just can't get round them.

Graham

Graham,

Not to worry, it would be a little boring if everyone liked all of it (I see why a lot of people don't get on with both 7 and 8).

I've never got on that well with the Das Lied (but then I've never really listened to it that much). I recently heard the Walter one and that went a long way to winning me round. I picked up the Haitink one yesterday but haven't listened to it yet.

If you haven't already the Abbado/Berlin 7 might be worth a listen (there are a lot of bad versions of the symphony).

regards,

Tam

Tam

It's so nice to be understood! Anyway, Solti finished crashing through the final bars of Mahler 8 a few minutes ago and, yet again, I was lost in admiration for 1970s recording technology and the response of the players, but wondering to what end.

Anyway, I've now moved back to 1960s technology, with Szell leading his Clevelanders over the Rainbow Bridge into Valhalla. And, b*gger me if just over half a dozen Valkyries haven't just ridden into my living space! [Sony48175]

So life isn't too bad at all.

G

Geoff,

Damn - now you've got me reaching for my Ring! Solti et al.

Mind you, I don't think there have been many combinations to rival Szell and the Clevelanders. They came to the Edinburgh festival last year (admittedly with Most and not Szell, which would have a little impressive) and absolutely blew me away.


regards,

Tam

Tam

One disc of Wagner "bleeding chunks" that has always blown away every other for me is Yevgeny Mravinsky with his Leningrad PO (of which he was principal conductor for around 50 years!!!) released on an Erato CD in 1992 on 2292-45762-2. I have no idea if it's still available but snap it up, if you can find a copy. The sound of the brass in Siegfried's Funeral March ranks as amongst the best orchestral playing on record and, played at the correct volume (ie loud), will cause goosebumps every time.

These are "live" recordings, in every sense of the word.

Much the same stuff (some in identical performances) appears on Melodiya/BMG 74321 251992, but the recordings, although arguably purer, don't have the same visceral impact.

Oh, puck, I haven't heard them for some months, so here we go.............

Graham [or Geoff, if you prefer]

Graham,

I may have to keep an eye out for that. Siegfried's funeral march: damn, don't think I've listened to that since I did the last of my upgrades......


regards,

Tam

Can't believe that we haven't heard from my old mate Basil on this yet. Hope he's well!

G

I struggled with Mahler's 8th also. However the watershed was a live performance. Now its easy, but massive. My copy is the Solti.

David

I haven't heard the Solti or the Rattle - bit my copy of this symphony is the Tennestedt/LPO...pretty darn good I reckon.

Like Tam and Earwicker I'm a fan of Rattle's Mahler - I'll be interested to hear this recording.

I sympathise with anyone who finds this an odd symphony though - even after I'd played it I still wasn't sure about it. It simply doesn't have the structural control of, say, the sixth symphony. Some fantastic big noises though.........

Kevin

Dosn't this also mean that there are now Rattle recordings of all the Mahler symphonies??

Yes. His "cycle" is complete, with two recordings of the Tenth. We shall have to wait and see whether EMI release them as a mid-priced box set. Maybe not, because Rattle himself doesn't see the recordings as a "cycle".

Graham

I've heard Tennstedt and his is very good indeed. But, imho, solti leaves him standing, especially given it's now on one disc.

Rattle is good, I can't remember Tennstedt well enough to compare them (I only heard it once and that was a while ago).

Will we see all of Rattle's in a budget box, I'm doubtful, especially given his comments in Gramophone this month (to which Graham seems to be alluding), however, I will be surprised if the EMI marketing machine can restrain themselves (I was especially interested in his comments regarding why he recorded the Orff recently, i.e. that EMI wanted him to do something more populist).


regards,

Tam