Mac or PC - is there any difference as a digital source?

Avole Asio just bypasses the windows sound mixer , I realise yo still need the rest of the operating system! Digital cables make a difference? How can they?

Hi, bypassing windows audio mixer is easy to do under windows but unfortunately windows still is needed to use the hardware itself. This means memory, hard disk, processor and so on can still play a role. I don't know how this factors influence streaming quality but according to computer audiophile there are differences even in windows versions (xp is preferred to vista).

Here there is an easy guide to bypass windows k-mixer: http://www.audialonline.com/html/articles/kmixer/

The driver itself used to bypass windows also matters (because of latencies among others factors). There are commercial versions of ASIO and with Mediamonkey it is also recommeded by Chris at computer audiophile to use a waveout plugin.

Other question is if bypassing windows k-mixer is enough to get bit perfect streaming or not. Some users report audio devices streaming noise (dither) through Macs and PCs and some audio sound cards. A null test is the way to check it.

Digital cables matters? In theory not as far as the cable matches the right specs but there may be some factors affecting to those specs such as propagation velocity, signal reflections or skin effect. Better connectors, proper shielding and good materials should help to avoid these flaws, but are they audible? I don't know.

quote:

Originally posted by goldfinch:
Hi, bypassing windows audio mixer is easy to do under windows but unfortunately windows still is needed to use the hardware itself. This means memory, hard disk, processor and so on can still play a role. I don't know how this factors influence streaming quality but according to computer audiophile there are differences even in windows versions (xp is preferred to vista).

Here there is an easy guide to bypass windows k-mixer: http://www.audialonline.com/html/articles/kmixer/

The driver itself used to bypass windows also matters (because of latencies among others factors). There are commercial versions of ASIO and with Mediamonkey it also recommeded by Chris at computer audiophile to use a waveout plugin.

Other question is if bypassing windows k-mixer is enough to get bit perfect streaming or not. Some users report audio devices streaming noise (dither) through Macs and PCs and some audio sound cards. A null test is the way to check it.

Digital cables matters? In theory not as far as the cable matches the right specs but there may be some factors affecting to those specs such as propagation velocity, signal reflections or skin effect. Better connectors, proper shielding and good materials should help to avoid these flaws, but are they audible? I don't know.

Even ASIO drivers aren't created equal and the ASIO4ALL one recomended in your link is only up to 16 bit capable. I'm not that fond of it if you can find one more capable and specific. There's better ones for MM which is basically a nicly featured and freindly version of Winamp so many of the same DLLs will work. The wave out pludgin looks interseting for it's pupose but is an MP3 decoder so no benefit in WAVE. It allows fine adjustment of buffers. The smallest you can use without issues or just a bit higher is usually best but of course, how could buffer size make a difference?

With this, I'm off. Cheers and guys, if you're ever in the States please come by and we'll play with some of this together and see if we can agree more, one way or the other. Maybe we'll even change the direction of Naim DC1. Ducks.

Well it seems the more I ‘learn’ about computer audio, it seems the less I know! Ironic as I have been using a computer all my life so far.

So from my research and your guy’s comments it seems if I go down this route I need to consider something similar to the following:

Software:
Winamp – ASIO support and decent remote gui, album cover search etc via iPhone
iAmpremote – remote software for winamp to use iPhone
Itunes – for sync with iphone (I can’t seem to get around this!!!!)
DBpoeramp for ripping (though I have done this already for my full collection…never again)

Hardware:
Emu 1212m Soundcard – appears to be v.decent quality, ASIO support via EMU software (similar to ASIO4all), AES/EBU support (though I don’t quite understand this one yet!)
DAC of choice – AES/EBU support a possibility
And obviously my current PC, NAS & internet setup

Music:
Currently a few 100gig of FLAC, mirrored in ALAC for iphone usage – though I may jailbreak iphone to add FLAC support or switch to ALAC for everything.

Not straight that straight forward but viable and sub £1k depending on DAC choice. Definitely less than a SB+/Linn DS.

quote:

Originally posted by Occean:
Well it seems the more I ‘learn’ about computer audio, it seems the less I know! Ironic as I have been using a computer all my life so far.

So from my research and your guy’s comments it seems if I go down this route I need to consider something similar to the following:

Software:
Winamp – ASIO support and decent remote gui, album cover search etc via iPhone
iAmpremote – remote software for winamp to use iPhone
Itunes – for sync with iphone (I can’t seem to get around this!!!!)
DBpoeramp for ripping (though I have done this already for my full collection…never again)

Hardware:
Emu 1212m Soundcard – appears to be v.decent quality, ASIO support via EMU software (similar to ASIO4all), AES/EBU support (though I don’t quite understand this one yet!)
DAC of choice – AES/EBU support a possibility
And obviously my current PC, NAS & internet setup

Music:
Currently a few 100gig of FLAC, mirrored in ALAC for iphone usage – though I may jailbreak iphone to add FLAC support or switch to ALAC for everything.

Not straight that straight forward but viable and sub £1k depending on DAC choice. Definitely less than a SB+/Linn DS.

Ocean, IMO, most critical choice is the dac. It depends on how much you want to spend and the rest of your system. In these days I think it is worth buying a good dac. This product market is now very interesting, with very good products at affordable prices.
Respect to PC and software,
Winamp is an option but I recommend you also test foobar (the most flexible) and Mediamonkey (more visual appealing).
Soundcard may be more or less important depending of the DAC, but I recommend at minimum the alternative you suggest. M-audio soundcards and trends audio convertor also have good reputation.
AES/EBU is a digital connection very common in pro gear but many hifi dacs also use it.

Respect how to avoid windows k-mixer, AFAIK there are three options:
- Asio driver, better than asio4all, download the asio recommended for mediamonkey ( http://home.scarlet.be/ruben.castelein/MM/MM-Plugins.htm )
- out_wave.dll (this is the one prefered at computer audiophile).
- kernel streaming (ks). You can download it at http://www.stevemonks.com/ksplugin/

You can install all of them and compare if they make any difference in sound quality in your system as long as all these plugins can be installed at the same time, only need to select each one. To make sure windows mixer is bypassed you only have to check windows volume is disabled.

Enjoy,

quote:

Originally posted by Occean

Not straight that straight forward but viable and sub £1k depending on DAC choice. Definitely less than a SB+/Linn DS.

Linn DS>$2000USD
SB duet $450
Sonos $350 (without HC)

Really try to listen first before you spend.

Goldfich

I agree with you, I am currently a Foobar user, but if I go this way I am after a setup that does not require a TV for track selection and ideally album cover browsing via remote like itunes/SB/Sonos

It is such a shame itunes doesn't support ASIO as the remote interface is the best I have used yet.

Gary1, I have used both a Sonos and SB already, while both are good they do not (without a dac) give the results I am looking for and are not much better than my current PC and (cheap)DAC setup.

I do intend to Demo a Sneaky DS and Majik DS over the next few weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by Occean

Not straight that straight forward but viable and sub £1k depending on DAC choice. Definitely less than a SB+/Linn DS.

With that budget, I would like to suggest that you listen to several standalone dacs under 1000 mark such as the Benchmark and Lavry DA10.

At a not much higher price I would also listen to the new Bryston and PS Audio Dacs.

There are several threads about dacs in this forum, you can get more opinions there.

quote:

Originally posted by Occean:

Gary1, I have used both a Sonos and SB already, while both are good they do not (without a dac) give the results I am looking for and are not much better than my current PC and (cheap)DAC setup.

I do intend to Demo a Sneaky DS and Majik DS over the next few weeks.

Occean, there's the rub. IMO, you've hit a wall and where to go from here is where opinions will really start to differ in terms of quality playback with different DAC options vs. cost. I understand your predicament, I was at that point as well. For me the DAC in the SN was the first stop where the improvement in quality over the Sonos/pre-amp set-up kicked in, still not what I'd want in serious listening, but fun and I didn't miss the CD player, until I played the same CDs in the CD5x/FC2x set-up and well the difference was huge. Having said that I didn't and would not buy a SN just for it's DAC, it's a bonus.

You know where I stand on the L----, and I've heard the PSA DAC III, and none of these options worked for me. The only one I liked at all was the Bel Canto III and now we're at $2500. I'd have tried the Sneaky, but in Chicago, it's not that easy to demo these Linn products the way I'd want to in a full Naim system. I'm amazed that most dealers selling DACs and digital streamers have absolutely no computer knowledge or set-up to properly demo the products. Not even a single laptop with EAC ripped tunes available, but only various transports. It is pretty incredible. Greg has it easy as he's got a great dealer nearby who sells both products and knows his stuff.

This is what led me to demo the HDX.

Good Luck in your search.