Should religion be taught in school?

I know I said I wasn't going to say anymore on this, but you raise two very important new points which I would like to contribute to - i.e. agree with!!

Please let me assure you that I too am alarmed by Mr Vardy!

It is important to note that in this case the Promoter of the school is not a recognised/official Church or other faith body -- and a faith body has to be sufficiently 'mainstream' to be able to satisfy the independent scrutineers about being able to guarantee to meet the long-term commitment of ongoing financial liabilities of 10% of building and all other future capital costs -- but a private grouping calling itself the Emmanuel Schools Foundation, the views of which are not representative of recognised Church bodies such as CofE diocesan boards of education.

I do not know the details, but I imagine that this school's Promotion can only have been accepted on grounds not of basic need (i.e. there will be enough school places in the area), but of "choice and diversity in secondary provision". Exercising my choice, I would NOT choose to send my children to this school.

It is wrong to claim that this Vardy-type thing is the future of faith schools in this Country. But it certainly raises all kinds of rightful issues about government policy on fit Promoters - whether that be a so-called 'faith' or secular (eg private enterprise) body.

The RE Agreed Syllabus for CofE VA and VC schools is virtually the same as the County Agreed Syllabusses - they have all been (or are even now being) revised, and Counties and DBEs are working in parallel.

And Creationism is NOT part of the Agreed Syllabus!!!

And finally, I applaud George and his personal comments about N. Ireland.

James,

You make some good points. I would not send my children to an Emmanuel school either. I don't even have any children and yet I worry about the state of schools everywhere.

There is a Buddhist school in Brighton called 'The Dharma School' (dharma being the teachings of the Buddha)where well meaning gentle folk - not necessarily Buddhist but the sort of hippy/new age/vegetarian tree hugging types one finds on the alternative fringes of any large town send their children but eventually they have to leave and go to secondary schools where they meet aggression, violence, bullying, depression, smoking and drugs and it can come as quite a shock. Although Buddhist in terms of values rather than a place where they learn formal Buddhist scripture and as gentle as tolerant and open minded as you can find anywhere in the world I would be a hypocrite if I thought that this school alone should be allowed to stay and places like the Emmanuel schools and some Islamic schools to be banned. What a sad world we live in. I want my children (when and if)to be taught how to think and to be inspired and challenged and nurtured in a friendly, safe, supportive environment and I want to leave matters of faith to them as individuals. I just dont get why we should take these precious blank sheets that we are blessed with and stamp on their foreheads 'I am a Christian baby' or muslim, or Jewish, or Hindu or Buddhist as if their respective DNA sets them apart at birth. A wonderful jewish techer who taught me maths when I was at school (leastways he tried)told me he had been turned down for a teaching post at a local RC school not because he was Jewish per se but because he was not RC!! He was actually told this. He was greatly loved and respected at my school. I would have to be equally appalled if a Jew was turned down by a Buddhist school for not being Buddhist. What a funny bunch we humans are always striving to create the world in our image.

quote:

Originally posted by acad tsunami:
A wonderful jewish techer who taught me maths when I was at school (leastways he tried)told me he had been turned down for a teaching post at a local RC school not because he was Jewish per se but because he was not RC!!

Acad

Please see post two of this thread. The same religious intolerance and filtering exists today.

My daughter has been a victim of this.

Like James I had stepped out of this thread as they quickly get bogged down. But in response to George's comments

quote:

Originally posted by full ahead:
Surely the community surrounding them who did the hateing is the community at fault or mabye the fact that their parents decided to send them to Catholic school is a good reason to hate them. At least N.ireland seems to be moving on.
George

I suspect pretty much both communities were equally blinkered - but since I didn't know hardly any of them at the time how would I really know! My concern/opinion is mainly that we should not have structural reasons for kids to form tribes and feel the others are alien/different. I believe (sic) if segregated schools had been abolished on NI 25 years ago many people would be alive now who are not. George clearly will have a more informed position on this than I....

I'm really delighted NI is making great strides, - and winning 3-0!

Ian

quote:

Originally posted by JWM:
I'm still waiting for the killer punch from the atheist party to demonstrate without quibble the non-existence of the divinity. I won't hold my breath.

Why are you waiting for that? The fact that something cannot be falsified is a million miles from making it true.

I'm still waiting for the killer punch from the Divinity Party when they'll explain why they believe something so utterly insupportable, outlandish, outmoded, theoretically unsatisfactory, and intellectually untenable.

Let's have it in a nutshell: why do you believe that the universe has a supernatural creator? Of all the possible explanations, why do you believe the most unlikely of them? And why do you want kids to grow up believing this spooky mumbojumbo?

EW

Ian,
The religious/political diversity that has caused us so much heartache in N.ireland was taught by parents /family /community ect.It was not taught in school.It was not taught in my school RC nor my wifes school STATE/PROTESTANT.It not taught at our daughters schools ,one went to RC secondary,the other to Methodist college and needless to say it was'nt taught at home.A variety of schools turned out 4 fairly normal people with friends and family accross the religous divide.The only difference between our school experiences, was those of us who went to RC school learned a few extra prayers,my wife had to attend Sunday school for hours ,she loved that.
If proplems persist in society,ya gotta look much closer to home.Problems are brought from home to school not the other way about.We enjoyed the footie match
Regards
George

I come from the east end of Glasgow where this sort of thing has been particularly troublesome. I remember being separated from my best friend in the early 60s when he went to the local Catholic school and I went to the non-denominational school. We'd been very close as youngsters but were undoubtedly estranged when he went to the catholic school. Our street was full of kids who all played together well but suddenly he acquired a new set of friends who were, shall we say, belligerent to the kids who didn't go to St Thomas's. I rarely had any contact with him after that.

No doubt at all in my mind that separating kids by sending some of them to Catholic schools is a very bad thing, in some areas at least. I speak from personal experience here.

i think youll find that you can send your kids to any school whatever their religion.
seeing as a few ppl mentioned the RC scenario in the west of scotland ill say my piece.
i am RC. i think schools should be integrated nowadays but it wont happen for a good while yet. there is still suspicion on catholic/protestant sides in Scotland among the people.
RC schools/churches are here because when the influx of Irish immigrants came here they were denied education etc so the RC church funded their own schools + churches until the state intervened.
i agree totally however with Full Ahead in that its taught first + foremost at home. if your constantly telling your kids something they will believe it.
as for not being able to teach in an RC school its because RC religion is part of the schooling. but i repeat Full Ahead's statement in that its only a tiny part of the school week and its not bible bashing at all. in fact your taught how to love everyone, not hate.

quote:

Originally posted by davie1967:
i think youll find that you can send your kids to any school whatever their religion.

That's not the case. RC schools have the right to select pupils and staff based on religion.

How this obscenity has been perpetuated God only knows.

quote:

Originally posted by TomK:
RC schools have the right to select pupils and staff based on religion. How this obscenity has been perpetuated God only knows.

Well, Catholic schools tend to be rather full...

quote:

Originally posted by JWM
I'm still waiting for the killer punch from the atheist party to demonstrate without quibble the non-existence of the divinity. I won't hold my breath.

It's a good thing you are not holding your breath. It is impossible to prove that something does not exist - you can only demonstrate that it is improbable. From the other side, there is no demonstrable proof of the existance of God either. I know that so-called "proofs" based on philosophical argument - but these rely on acceptance of the metaphysics used in the proof (which are themselves speculative).

So - regarding the topic of the thread, of course religion should be taught in schools as part of a rounded education, but it should be taught in the context of current knowledge. On the subject of faith schools, I fear (although I don't know) that at least in some cases, the lines between education and indoctrination become blurred. For this reason, I don't think that faith schools should receive government funding.

quote:

Originally posted by Trevp:
...On the subject of faith schools, I fear (although I don't know) that at least in some cases, the lines between education and indoctrination become blurred. For this reason, I don't think that faith schools should receive government funding.

Interestingly, the National Union of Teachers -- the largest and most progressive/radical of the teaching unions -- doesn't agree.

At last year's Annual Conference of the NUT (April 2006), teachers rejected calls to end state funding for faith schools.

In a motion proposed by Hank Roberts of the London Borough of Brent, the NUT was urged to campaign to abolish faith-based state education amid warnings that faith schools lead to ethnic conflicts, extremism and "even terrorism".

But delegates rejected the motion and voted instead for an amendment that backed the continued existence of faith schools.

Two friends from my Navy days,one from Tyneside and one from the greater Birmingham area fought tooth and nail to get their kids into the respective local RC schools.Neither of the couples is RC,indeed possibly have no religion at all.When i asked why they bothered going down this route,i was told that these particular schools were the best in their areas,therfore their kids were going there and they did.
Dont know how things work in rest of UK but in N.Ireland its against the law to refuse kids access to schools because of their religion.Suject to there been available places ,youre in the local catchment area ect.

Just remembered talking to an old fella one night in a pub(where else).He reconed religious intolerence was like a bag of shit.You can dress this bag up anyway you want with fancy papers ribbons ect.and have a fancy gold embossed card explaining the contents.However when the bag begins to leak as they all do eventually,no matter how well it was dressed up ,youre left with what you started with "a load of shit"
Regards
George