Overrated
Posted by: Kevin-W on 29 November 2002
Here's a question for all you music lovers?
Who's the most overrated artist/band in the musical firmament (they don't have to be shit, just overrated).
I have to say, for me it's:
1. REM - a very ordinary band with prentensions toward greatness. Why do people take Stipe & Co seriously?
2. The Jam - Why this bunch of Mod nostalgists were acclaimed best band in Britain in the late 70s/early 80s is a complete mystery. Why did anyone listen to retro-fluff like Setting Sons/All Mods con etc when there was stuff like Joy Division, Magazine and Throbbing Gristle around at the same time?
3. Van Morrison. He has a fine voice, that I grant, but he's rubbish! Astral Weeks is surely the most overrated LP ever!
4. Madonna. She's OK, has written some great pop songs ("Papa Don't Preach", "Like A Prayer"), but she hasn't got the talent or looks to make it as a cultural icon.
5. Bruce Springsteen. Sorry, but Broooce's attempts at sweaty authenticity leave me completely cold.
Anyone got suggestions of their own? Let's get a nice heated debate going on a boring Friday afternoon!
Kevin
Who's the most overrated artist/band in the musical firmament (they don't have to be shit, just overrated).
I have to say, for me it's:
1. REM - a very ordinary band with prentensions toward greatness. Why do people take Stipe & Co seriously?
2. The Jam - Why this bunch of Mod nostalgists were acclaimed best band in Britain in the late 70s/early 80s is a complete mystery. Why did anyone listen to retro-fluff like Setting Sons/All Mods con etc when there was stuff like Joy Division, Magazine and Throbbing Gristle around at the same time?
3. Van Morrison. He has a fine voice, that I grant, but he's rubbish! Astral Weeks is surely the most overrated LP ever!
4. Madonna. She's OK, has written some great pop songs ("Papa Don't Preach", "Like A Prayer"), but she hasn't got the talent or looks to make it as a cultural icon.
5. Bruce Springsteen. Sorry, but Broooce's attempts at sweaty authenticity leave me completely cold.
Anyone got suggestions of their own? Let's get a nice heated debate going on a boring Friday afternoon!
Kevin
Posted on: 29 November 2002 by Steve Catterall
Posted on: 29 November 2002 by Mekon
Well give how huge that one is, and how this thread is here...
Boards of Canada - Sure, they are OK, but they're just a mix of Orbital, LFO and Sweet Exorcist. I hear nothing new in what they do. Not that I dislike them, but NME called them one of the most distinctive sounds of the 90's or summat. What tosh.
Boards of Canada - Sure, they are OK, but they're just a mix of Orbital, LFO and Sweet Exorcist. I hear nothing new in what they do. Not that I dislike them, but NME called them one of the most distinctive sounds of the 90's or summat. What tosh.
Posted on: 29 November 2002 by Kevin-W
I've thought of two more...
The Doors
Elvis (Costello, not the King)
The Doors
Elvis (Costello, not the King)
Posted on: 29 November 2002 by woodface
Glad somebody remembered my original thread, it was a monster! Any way i think this topic is well worth reviving. REM? Are you mad, all I can say is listen to their first album 'Murmer' from 1983 (?) and think what other music was being made at the time. They were way ahead of their time in many ways. For the record my picks would be Mercury Rev (at best sub Flaming Lips) and Bob Dylan (Can't sing and writes gobbledegook lyrics).
Posted on: 29 November 2002 by Kevin-W
I know the album, it's not bad for REM. I agree with you that much of the music being made in '83 was utter poop, but what about that year's best single ("Blue Monday") and best LP ("power Corruption & Lies"), both from the mighty New Order (best band of the 80s bar none, though I don't think much of the 2001/02 version!).
Added to that in that same year there were ace offerings from the Smiths, Durutti Column, James, Cabaret Voltaire, Einsturzende Neubauten, SPK, Howard Devoto, Nick Cave.
All slightly more enaging, methinks, than REM's turgid strumming.
Added to that in that same year there were ace offerings from the Smiths, Durutti Column, James, Cabaret Voltaire, Einsturzende Neubauten, SPK, Howard Devoto, Nick Cave.
All slightly more enaging, methinks, than REM's turgid strumming.
Posted on: 29 November 2002 by Bob Edwards
Clueless or joking if you think REM the most overrated band ever. And New Order the best band of the 80's? Surely you're just joking.
Most musical historians knowledgeable about the period rank REM and Husker Du as the two most significant/influential American bands of the 1980's. Relative to what was being produced then (and even today), REM look like Beethoven.
If you want really overrated, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, and the Police all spring to mind.
Best,
Bob
Most musical historians knowledgeable about the period rank REM and Husker Du as the two most significant/influential American bands of the 1980's. Relative to what was being produced then (and even today), REM look like Beethoven.
If you want really overrated, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, and the Police all spring to mind.
Best,
Bob
Posted on: 29 November 2002 by Tim Jones
Wasn't it REM who did that cover of Wire's 'Strange'. The one using acoustic guitars and mandolins? Bunch of arse. And what was that terrible song that people always thought was dead meaningful?
Anyhow, the single most overrated band of all time has to be U2. From big-haired, lighters-in-the-air wank in the 80s to post-modern irony wank in the 90s they have always sucked ass.
Anyhow, the single most overrated band of all time has to be U2. From big-haired, lighters-in-the-air wank in the 80s to post-modern irony wank in the 90s they have always sucked ass.
Posted on: 29 November 2002 by Kevin-W
I agree with you about Husker Du... great band with a positive influence!
But did REM ever create a record that was as grounbreaking as "Blue Monday"?
I can't recall one.
The 80s were pretty terrible, though, weren't they... Police/that overweening oaf Sting, Phil Collins, Queen, Spandau Ballet, post-Waters Pink Floyd, Springsteen... I don't even think U2 really got going until "Achtung Baby" in '91. Dylan I quite like, but he had a truly abysmal 80s ("Knocked Out Loaded" anyone?).
Kevin
But did REM ever create a record that was as grounbreaking as "Blue Monday"?
I can't recall one.
The 80s were pretty terrible, though, weren't they... Police/that overweening oaf Sting, Phil Collins, Queen, Spandau Ballet, post-Waters Pink Floyd, Springsteen... I don't even think U2 really got going until "Achtung Baby" in '91. Dylan I quite like, but he had a truly abysmal 80s ("Knocked Out Loaded" anyone?).
Kevin
Posted on: 29 November 2002 by woodface
I suppose it was pretty special but it was a single(?). Not a New Order expert but they are not really an albums band. REM were pretty ground breaking even in the late 80's with Green, they were writing songs about the environment long before the tree hugging 90's! I think your views are pretty entrenched though (anti-american?) so I am unlikely to change them! Agree about U2 though - never got them.
Posted on: 29 November 2002 by fred simon
quote:
Originally posted by woodface:
... Bob Dylan (Can't sing and writes gobbledegook lyrics).
Hi, Woodface. You may not dig Dylan; that's beside the point. And his singing may be an acquired taste (perhaps more easily acquired by those who appreciate Woody Guthrie). But his lyrics are certainly not gobbledygook. Here is just one of many examples:
The Times They Are A-Changin'.
Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.
Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.
Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.
Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.
The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.
Anyone who can write even one lyric, much less dozens, like that cannot be deemed overrated.
[This message was edited by fred simon on FRIDAY 29 November 2002 at 21:46.]
Posted on: 30 November 2002 by Mekon
quote:
Originally posted by NAIMGAIM:
Who Cares, y'all B crazee n' shit! Eminem is my new pop idol, dog! Ya know what I'm sayin'? Yo!
Strange you should say that. I was going to put Eminem, but thought better of it, as I assumed nobody here would rate him. On some of the hiphop boards I go one, quite a few serious hiphop heads think alot of him. They are able to see past the 'slim shady' persona, and rate him for his delivery. Personally, I think he descended into unintentional self-parody along time ago, and would put Sole, Buck65, Sage Francis, or Alias up as examples of introspective white rappers with equal skills, who don't feel the need to use misogeny and homophobia to demostrate their 'realness'.
Posted on: 30 November 2002 by ClaudeP
Michael Jackson
The best-selling album of all time is a piece of ...
The best-selling album of all time is a piece of ...
Posted on: 01 December 2002 by JohanR
A nobody who could sing. And he did NOT invent Rock and Roll!
Posted on: 01 December 2002 by rch
Kevin,
I have no problem with mostly said on your list, but REM IS great and not at all overrated.
Claude,
You got it! That's my opinion too, which I also stated in the elder thread.
Regards
Christian
I have no problem with mostly said on your list, but REM IS great and not at all overrated.
Claude,
You got it! That's my opinion too, which I also stated in the elder thread.
Regards
Christian
Posted on: 02 December 2002 by count.d
Now we have Kevin-W to add to the jerk list on Naim forum.
Stallion is at number one.
Stallion is at number one.
Posted on: 02 December 2002 by woodface
Fred I am afraid we will never agree as to the merits of Dylan. I really hate that song you transcribed by the way! I just feel there are better song writers out there, lyrics are only part of the story afterall. I much prefer people like Randy Newman where the words are paired with interesting music.
Posted on: 02 December 2002 by rch
woodface,
just hold on for a while with your posts, so you can enjoy the feeling of "552".
Tell us about it later
Christian
just hold on for a while with your posts, so you can enjoy the feeling of "552".
Tell us about it later
Christian
Posted on: 02 December 2002 by Kevin-W
Count
I fail to see how having an opinion qualifies one for jerkdom. So I don't like one or some of your favourite artists - get a life pal.
Kevin
I fail to see how having an opinion qualifies one for jerkdom. So I don't like one or some of your favourite artists - get a life pal.
Kevin
Posted on: 02 December 2002 by Mekon
Mark, if you like Eminem, you should definitely check out Sole and Alias. Both have albums out that are available at www.anticon.com , and have mp3s you can d/l. The Deep Puddle Dynamics albums is excellent too.
Posted on: 03 December 2002 by the other nickc
Bob dylan is perhaps one of the few figures in popular music that I would feel comfortable using
the word 'genius' to describe.
Admittedly it does help to know where he's 'coming from' (i.e. Woody Guthrie + american folk/primitive music).
The only thing I feel can do is point you in the direction of the following songs, if you don't feel a sense of awe after hearing them then forget it - Dylan's not for you!
blind willie mctell
masters of war
don't think twice, it's all right
it's alright ma (i'm only bleeding)
positively 4th street
idiot wind
every grain of sand
bob dylans dream
moonshiner
cheers
Nick
the word 'genius' to describe.
Admittedly it does help to know where he's 'coming from' (i.e. Woody Guthrie + american folk/primitive music).
The only thing I feel can do is point you in the direction of the following songs, if you don't feel a sense of awe after hearing them then forget it - Dylan's not for you!
blind willie mctell
masters of war
don't think twice, it's all right
it's alright ma (i'm only bleeding)
positively 4th street
idiot wind
every grain of sand
bob dylans dream
moonshiner
cheers
Nick
Posted on: 03 December 2002 by woodface
This has to be a joke right? Whatever floats your boat but surely even fans of Dylan must cringe at some of the hyperbole written about him.
Posted on: 04 December 2002 by greeny
Overrated: mercury Rev and Flaming Lips (SOft Bulletin and ..Robots are pants)
REM are one of the few bands to have produced consistently high quality albums all through their career, there are no real duds.
Dylan: There are 5 or 6 Dylan albums everyone should have, unfortunately there are an equal number (or more) of stinkers.
MOST Overrated: U2. I actually quite like some of their stuff but you'd have thought they were the only band in existance through the 80's and 90's the way some of the press went on. They only did 2 good LP's IMO (Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby)
O and most overrated ever: Frank Zappa
REM are one of the few bands to have produced consistently high quality albums all through their career, there are no real duds.
Dylan: There are 5 or 6 Dylan albums everyone should have, unfortunately there are an equal number (or more) of stinkers.
MOST Overrated: U2. I actually quite like some of their stuff but you'd have thought they were the only band in existance through the 80's and 90's the way some of the press went on. They only did 2 good LP's IMO (Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby)
O and most overrated ever: Frank Zappa
Posted on: 04 December 2002 by woodface
Is this one of Bob's 5 or 6 albums? I have it at home and cannot get through it, really terrible droning on and on.....
Posted on: 05 December 2002 by the other nickc
I don't like Highway 69 either, can't get on with it. People usually point to Blood on the Tracks as being the greatest dylan album and the best 'way in' to dylan. I wouldn't disagree.
Time out of Mind, The Freewheelin, John Wesley Harding, and the Bootleg Series 1-3 compliation are also great albums.
Time out of Mind, The Freewheelin, John Wesley Harding, and the Bootleg Series 1-3 compliation are also great albums.
Posted on: 05 December 2002 by greeny
Yes I would say Highway 61 is one of Bob's best, along with: Blood on the Tracks; Blonde on Blonde; Bringing it all back Home; Time out of Mind and Oh Mercy.