For any hen's teeth users:

Posted by: Alex S. on 22 January 2002

If you're using a CDPS with a CDS2 or CDX with a grey Burndy and don't intend to buy an XPS then please go and buy a modified black Burndy to replace the grey one. I promise you won't be disappointed. Much more music.

Alex

Posted on: 22 January 2002 by ebirah

Sounds like youve upgraded Alex?
Could you elaborate on the sonic nature of the benefit?
I know its difficult, but have a stab at quantifying it for me!

Steve

Posted on: 23 January 2002 by Alex S.

I'm trying not to exagerate and I don't have an XPS infront of me to prove it but I think changing the lead grey to black is about the same as changing the PSU itself (there was a recent thread which seemed to agree). I listened to it for 2 weeks before saying anything here.

I won't list clichés but the black lead just does everything that bit better - especially the music part. Infact, my CDS2 is now almost a match for my LP12.

Regards,

Alex

Posted on: 23 January 2002 by Alex S.

I've demmed grey v black Burndys and CDPS/XPS outside my system at dealers and inside for a weekend.

There is no doubt that an XPS is an objectively superior PSU to the CDPS and its a lot more 'hi-fi'. It has greater resolving power and makes sense of a complicated mix rather better than the CDPS. Nonetheless, in my system I almost prefer the old supply - it has a more laid back presentation and a warmer, more 'analogue' sound which suits my tastes and my lively room.

When these comparisons are 'cost adjusted' I find the lead upgrade a 'no-brainer' and the PSU 'upgrade' a matter of personal choice and income.

I also think we can succumb to the 'cost re-adjusted performance improvement factor' (CRAPIF) when we add expensive new boxes.

Regards,

Alex

Posted on: 23 January 2002 by Stuart M

Put in new black leads about 6 months ago and amazed at the difference it made. But, one fun thing I used to do when people would say "How much for a CD player" was to play a CD on my DVD player via the Naim then on the CD5 flat cap and watch their jaw drop

After the change to the gray cable the difference between the two was less obvious in short A-B dems.

[This message was edited by Stuart M on WEDNESDAY 23 January 2002 at 11:37.]

Posted on: 23 January 2002 by jpk73

Stallion: I've recently carried out a comparison test between the grey and black leads, together with "old" and "new" SNAICS and the interconnect leads

My leads are all black exept the Burndy between CDPS and CDS1. The Interconnect between CDS and NAC52 is grey: Are there different versions of interconnects? Also the 4 to 5-pin lead between the Prefix-Supercap and Nac52 is grey...

I sold my CD3.5/FlatCap to a friend with a grey Snaic and grey interconnect. Anyone experienced the comparison between grey and black Snaic in this kind of setup?

Jun

Posted on: 23 January 2002 by Ron Toolsie

Without repeating much of the verbiage I've espoused earlier...
1. Black Snaics (the Din 4 and Din 5) are a great fundmental improvement over the gray ones. They are disproportionately inexpensive as compared to the very large gains in fluidity, timing, resolution and banishment of dysphonic colourations as compared to their very modest price. Note that they are equally well applied even when they are not carrying an audio signal, such as going from the NAT-01 to the NATPS, and from the Supercap to the 52's L/D power in hookup.
2. The Black Burndy (aka Snaic 17) offers similar, although to my ears less drastic improvements. The exception to this is when used with the CDS1, where the degree of improvement is no less than shocking and largely exculpates most of the criticisms of the S1- which can, when the going gets tough and the music gets busy take on a glary and somewhat confused presentation. Dare I say that the Black Burndy 17 also allows the S1 to adopt some rather pleasing round earth attributes without sacrificing any of its flat earth ones.
3. CDS1/CDSPS vs CDS2/CDSPS vs CDS2/XPS...this is really a subject for a thread of its own. There is little doubt that the best bang for the buck is the CDS2/CDSPS (with a Black Burndy please). For those who love what the S2 has to offer, the CDSPS goes a long way for short green. Note that there are muting idiosyncracies when this combo is used and if the turn-off sequence is not followed there are woofer-frying opportunities. Yes the XPS is better and allows the floral-like beauty of the S2 to fully bloom. It is subjectively faster, quieter and more poised and secure in its grip on the music.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo

Posted on: 23 January 2002 by Bernard Paquet

Intresting Ron,

I have a CDS 1 and an 82 with one Hicap. Should i get Black Burndy first or another Hicap for my 82?

Thanks,

Bernard Paquet

Posted on: 23 January 2002 by dave simpson

I've noticed all of you have found worthwhile improvements with the black cables (including Burndy). Even with the disparity of gear, the replies are pretty much the same.

I agree with the groups's findings except for the black Burndy...strange. Ron even notes the "cds mk1" application of the black Burndy offers *exceptional* improvements over the grey counterpart.(My black Burndy is used with a cds mk1 also.)

The last time we discussed this Dave Dever suggested I "work" my Burndy more to decrease the tension in the sheathing. I did this...for ten minutes... with little change. Moving the rig from Mana to Fraim shows up more differences when a/bing the black vs. grey Burndy - but no where near the level of improvement I "sense" here.

System set-up would be my first suspicion, but attention to detail with my rig is foremost and always has been. Any suggestions?

bewildered....

dave

Posted on: 23 January 2002 by Mike Hanson

quote:
Should i get Black Burndy first or another Hicap for my 82?

The going from one to two Hi-caps gives more improvement than upgrading the SNAIC from grey to black on one Hi-Cap.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Posted on: 23 January 2002 by Ron Toolsie

quote:
I have a CDS 1 and an 82 with one Hicap. Should i get Black Burndy first or another Hicap for my 82?

Well, if there is any way you can stretch to it- have the CDS1 head unit rebuilt to a CDS2 and get a CDSPS-CDS2 Black burndy. This I believe will be a far better upgrade than simply adding a second Hicap to the 82. It is however rather more expensive. Given my experience with gray/black Burndies on the CDS1 and somewhat more limited experience with the 82, I feel that a black Burndy on the CDS1 is a more effective upgrade than adding another Hicap without a black Burndy on the S1.

In response to the merits of Black Burndies, I should note that I have upgraded to these in the 52, the Snaxo 3-6 and the CDS1- which essentially encompass all of its applications. I would suggest that the CDS1 Black Burndy is mandatory... gains in other components are marginal compared to their non-trivial expense and should really only be entertained in a well set up, top-flight system. Users of gray Burndies on 52s and Snaxos need not developed equipment paranoia.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo

Posted on: 23 January 2002 by John

Bernard:

Don't consider the 2 Hicap route. Move from 1 Hicap to a Supercap. Remember you can sell the 1st Hicap to cover part of the Supercap cost. You also might find there is little difference between putting funds up for another Hicap and selling your current Hicap and buying a Supercap (buying used). This would also position you for a 52 which is a huge difference from the 82/Super. I would consider this move before the burndy move on your CDS1. The gains are significant with the burndy but your 82 is masking the CDS1 alot.

Good luck!
John

Posted on: 23 January 2002 by Bernard Paquet

Thanks Ron and John,

Maybe i will get both! The going rate for a second hand hicap seem to be low.

John, i'm always trying to find a good deal on a 52 but each time there is something wrong with the dealer... (BTW, i've already a Black Burndy waiting for an upcoming 52!!!)

For now i will give a try to active thing. I just bought two Nap 250, a Hicap, and a Naxo 2-4. I will play around with this. So maybe John you can have a good deal on pair of 135, old style, in canadian dollar!!!

Bernard Paquet

Posted on: 23 January 2002 by John

Bernard:

Thanks for the offer but I don't know if I want to go the active route. I suspect Naim will be replacing the 250 and 135s shortly and adding two more boxes and a crossover forces me into more racks. I am very happy with what I now have.

If I upgrade I might consider a better TT or the Fraim. I am very happy with my P9 but am curious what's above it. I am also curious about the Fraim but yet to hear an objective comparison to Mana.

You should also consider a good rack.

John

Posted on: 23 January 2002 by Roland Huu

John is correct. I too have a pair of 135s and 52 currently. Yes, I've heard the benefits of going active but that would mean a second rack and 4 more boxes (135 users anyway). Which makes one wonder what is all the fuss about just go 1 500 and be happy with it. $$$

But when Naim comes out with new amps (which they will) people will be trading in so the temptation for a good deal with existing 135s may be too good. So many times people 'critise' the 135s or 250s but they are no slack product. All of us believed that it is the best from Naim until the 500 came along anyway.

For the time being I'm happy with the passive 135s.

Regards
Roland

Posted on: 24 January 2002 by billyj

I recently sold my new style 140 with black snaic to a friend of mine who had a old style 140 with grey snaic and he was very please with the change, his system sound much more musical.He thinks it is the change of snaic.
billyJ

Posted on: 24 January 2002 by Alex S.

I've given up beer threads since the great bladder debacle of '85.

Cheers,

Alex

Posted on: 24 January 2002 by Don Atkinson

If you're using a CDPS with a CDS2 or CDX with a grey Burndy and don't intend to buy an XPS.....

is this last condition ..and don't intend to buy an XPS.... because the XPS CANNOT be bought without the Burndy and hence you would wind up with TWO black Burndys and a further £300 overdraft?? (unless you sold the first black Burndy eg when disposing of the CDPS)

Reason for asking is because I am about to move from CDS1 to CDS2 transport but might eventually go to XPS as well.

Cheers

Don

Posted on: 24 January 2002 by Martin Payne

quote:
Originally posted by Don Atkinson:
is this last condition _..and don't intend to buy an XPS...._ because the XPS CANNOT be bought without the Burndy and hence you would wind up with TWO black Burndys and a further £300 overdraft??

Don,

yes, the XPS CANNOT be ordered without black burndy.

It's also worth pointing out that the CDPS burndy & XPS burndy are configured differently, and you cannot use one in place of the other.

If you buy a black one you have to sell it with the CDPS.

I was lucky enough to get a black burndy with my CDPS for this reason.

cheers, Martin

Posted on: 25 January 2002 by Alex S.

Martin's answered your question expertly as usual. It is unlikely that you'll get more than £100 for a modded black Burndy when you sell the CDPS. Nonetheless, if your 'eventual' XPS is a long way off it would be worth doing and in the interim I will endeavour to increase its value by continued forum eulogising. Not that its necessary; when you come to sell the CDPS/BB combination just plug it into the nearest CDX and its owner will bite your hand off for it.

Alex

Posted on: 25 January 2002 by Martin Payne

quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Brownnutt:

I have a CDPS, CDX and 52. I currently have two Burndys. A grey one between the CDPS and CDX and a black one on the 52.
My question is are they the same? That is can I swap them over?

Matt,

NO!

There are at least three formats of CD Burndy (CDSI/CDPS, CDSI/XPS, CDSI/CDPS). Use of the wrong one could cause terminal damage to your CDP.

Similarly, there are two different SuperCap Burndys - for 52 & SNAXO. My dealer managed to "terminate" a 52 by using a SNAXO Burndy.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

cheers, Martin

Posted on: 25 January 2002 by Martin Payne

quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Brownnutt:
Do you know if there is a easy to tell which type of burndy you have? I'm just dreading setting up the system after moving house and blowing something up.

Matt,

I think they're usually labelled.

But - reality check. One of them is black, and they other is grey! What's to confuse?

cheers, Martin