How much do you spend on a bottle of wine?

quote:

Originally posted by rodwsmith:

quote:

Originally posted by Nigel Cavendish:
on about how this smells of blackcurrant and tobacco

Alas I fear I am in the wine ponce camp as it's my job and I've passed all the exams.

However, trying not to be poncey, and at the risk of upsetting any chemists by over simplification, if you can smell or taste blackcurrant in a wine - it's because you actually can...
All fruit flavours are made up of esthers and the "blackcurrant" one is common to all black skinned fruit. Fermentation breaks down and re-assembles these esthers making them more (or less) apparent than they were in the original juice. Which is why cider doesn't taste like apple juice, for example.
A 'blackcurranty' wine tastes of the stuff that blackcurrants taste of (and incidentally is quite likely to be made from the grape variety Cabernet Sauvignon as this, by virtue of a thicker skin, has the greatest amount of the esther amongst grapes).

Similar is true for the gooseberry/kiwi fruit esther in Sauvignon Blanc, and the banana esther in fermented wheat (try smelling Hoegaarden or another weissbier).

Tobacco, on the other hand is subjective, although such a wine would have been aged in oak barrels, the charring of which affects the flavour.

Is that poncey, or interesting/helpful?

I'll get my coat...

Rod

Peeeeeeeeeep..!

Now enjoying a 2002 'La Motte' Shiraz. Bought at Dubai airport a couple of years ago and forgotten about!! Absolutely wonderful with bags of flavour (BTW it's South African).

Mark

Cheers to you then Mark. Mine's an Aussie Cabernet, Oxley's Stone 2005. Very dark and rich, blackberries and mint and excellent value at a fiver.

Mark

quote:

The more I saw last night, the more it struck me that the alcohol was merely a different tool with which to self harm.

I think that in many cases (excuse pun) it can be. At other times it can be self medicating to cover up mental illness and a hundred other reasons.

Regards

I really enjoyed the OzMay show. The banter was great and I agree May was a good foil to Clarke. I particularly liked his 'Ozolater' blown when Clarke headed into wine ponce language. Quite reminiscent of some of the best 'boys day out' sections of Top Gear with May, Hammond and Clarkson.

Bought a bottle of Secano Pinot Noir (Chile) after Oz recommendation on the Five Live interview. £5.99 in M & S. Very nice.

Maybe Rod could give us a list of recommendations, say £5 to £50?
Anybody seen the film Sideways? Fabulous

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:

Anybody seen the film Sideways? Fabulous

I loved it... real grown up feel good film. Highly recommended here.

Diccus

quote:

Is that poncey, or interesting/helpful?

Interesting and helpful, no need to get the coat.

But, like others, i'd be interested in a couple of your recommendations for reds at
a £5
b £10
c £15
d £20
e £25
f £50

Cheers

Don

Happy to offer advice when I can but specific recommendations are a slightly thorny issue as last time I recommended something on here I got, if I recall correctly, quite a bashing. Allegations that I was in some way pushing stuff I had to sell, which wasn't true, was mildly upsetting, and with all due respect to the Naim forum, would hardly have made a huge difference to my company's bottom line even if it had been a rip-roaring success.

More pertinently, however, the joy of wine is that no two people have the same taste. Why on earth should you like something just because I do? Wine sort of resembles music in that way - we can all appreciate quality in that which we don't actually like. You might hate Barolo (which I love) and delight in Gewürztraminer (which I don't). I not a great fan, for this reason, of much wine journalism which is why I got out of it. As a consequence of getting a job I get lots of my company's stuff cheap, and to my mild shame drink and taste less widely than I used to, so specific recommendations are tricky. I offer these general points therefore:

Deals/multibuys.
Like anything else, these offer a mixture of value and artifice. If something is available at "£9.99 - Buy one get one Free", then you are buying two at a fiver each. Simple as that.

Supermarkets have huge buying power on the one hand but enormous volume demands on the other. They will therefore usually offer the best value but rarely if ever the best quality. People on this forum are unlikely I guess to buy a dvd player at Tesco, but that's where they're cheapest.

a) £5 Find the 'unlikely' to get a bargain. Southern Italy, esp Sicily, Central Spain (Jumilla particularly) and to my taste Argentina in the new world, offer the best value. Wine under £4 is a risk, albeit a cheap one.

£5 - £10 This is the ideal hunting ground and where Australia, Chile and Californian wines offer their best value for money. Start to look at lesser classic areas within Europe like Chianti, the Rhône, Loire, and Navarra.

£10 - £15 The beginning of the classic areas and also the beginning of diminishing returns IMO. Burgundy at £10 is 'cheap' Burgundy, but hardly cheap wine. Then again it costs a lot to make and demand exceeds supply. At £10 comes the dividing line for a lot of places. Example: £8.99 Châteauneuf du Pape is 'cheap' and likely nasty. Better to spend £15 on Châteauneuf or £8.99 on a decent Côtes du Rhône Villages. The top of the range Golf is probably a better car than a similarly priced BMW / Merc.

£15+ With the exception of Port, Champagne and wines from places of huge land prices (Switzerland, Sussex, the Napa Valley etc), this is where cost of production is no longer the guiding factor for the purchase price. It costs what it does because people are prepared to pay that amount. However with all the competition around, wines which are rubbish but carry a famous name on the label don't survive long and are unlikely to get into the UK anyway.
Barolo, Brunello, Rioja, Bordeaux and Burgundy are always more rewarding if you drink them less frequently but spend more each time.

So a specific piece of advice is to find a decent independent wine merchant who stocks what they do because they really believe in it. Then go to Majestic or Oddbins for supermarket-beating deals and the opportunity to taste stuff first (the best way) and staff who are often there because they're interested in the product.

If a supermarket it has to be then Waitrose is more competitive for wine (everyone wants to be on their shelves) than it may be for other stuff. Their range is uniformly very good to excellent I find.

And buy some Bollinger of course because I work for them and it will help me get my bonus, which I will spend on more Naim hi-fi.

Cheers

Rod

I had a St Hallett Barossa Faith Shiraz 2004 last night. Disappointing. My Jacktone Ranch Merlot at £3.49 is nicer. Just shows you, eh!?

Im no expert but I think Rod's overview is fair. I hope he posts some more on this jolly interesting topic.

quote:

Originally posted by Diccus62:

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:

Anybody seen the film Sideways? Fabulous

I loved it... real grown up feel good film. Highly recommended here.

Diccus

Ditto. One of the best films I have seen in a long time. I thoroughly recommend it.

Not sure about Oz - was told by someone who knows him well that he hardly knew a thing about wine in his early days on Tv but as a very pushy chancer who had stompped on a friend who did know about wine and elbowed said friend out of the frame has managed to get more than his fair share of 15 mins of fame. James May is a very likeble chap imo.

Thanks Rod that was very enlightening. Thanks for sharing your expertise. I'll have a dodge down our Year old Waitrose.

Diccus

A superb summary, Rod and devoid of 'wine expert bullshit'. I pretty much agree with all of that.

Regards

Mark

Speaking of Bollinger.....

Living in Canada we do not see a wide selection of Bollinger.
Rod ,which bottle are you drinking these days for non special occasions ?
How does the 'SPECIAL CUVEE' Brut stack up ?
Ill be drinking red tonight.
Thanks
Jay

hy There! i start with recommended Bottles
(from my parkbenchfriends)for 3 euros.
But iam sure the wine you get in bars in glasses is sometimes 2euro for a double liter
in the supermarket.
the most expensive bottle was pichler FX
welschriesling infinity,from austria, recommended by Parker wine guide,bought it
for 70 euros,was good but was it 65 euros better than other (not so bad) wines??..........

an other question:
is naim 555 worth the price difference to a
sony player??dedfinitly Y E S O.J.

quote:

Originally posted by jz:
Speaking of Bollinger.....

Living in Canada we do not see a wide selection of Bollinger.
Rod ,which bottle are you drinking these days for non special occasions ?
How does the 'SPECIAL CUVEE' Brut stack up ?
Ill be drinking red tonight.
Thanks
Jay

Hi Jay

Well I'm sure Bollinger is sold in Canada. People in the UK may have a slightly distorted impression of it, believing it to be a far bigger producer than it is. The majority (65%) is sold in the UK, then the domestic market, then the USA. For most Champagne houses, France is no. 1, then the States.

As I work for them, I am slightly partisan, for which I apologise, but the Bollinger style is full flavoured, black fruit (Pinot Noir) dominated, richer through the use of oak barrels for maturation of the base wines (only three houses still do this) and quite, well, "wine-y" although that sounds poncey I admit. Special Cuvée is the "house" wine, and as with all Champagne houses, this is the wine by which they stand or fall. We don't do discounting (in the UK anyway) - make of that what you will, and Bollinger is one of the few remaining major Champagne houses still entirely in family ownership. "Non vintage" - in a cold region of wild vintage variations - should be regarded as a positive, they endeavour to make sure the wine is the same every time you open a bottle by blending different base wines, including some older ones. All Champagne houses do this, but the more expensive bottlings will simply have the luxury of a greater selection of different base wines from which to draw their blend and this raises the consistency potential.

I suppose all things are relative, but in the UK a bottle of almost any Champagne needs a slightly special occasion, and personally I would reserve vintage and prestige cuvée Champagnes for VERY Special occasions (Bolllinger La Grande Année is £60, for example), but then you may be fabulously rich compared to me (and I get staff discount!)...

Anyway, enjoy...

Rod

PS If anyone here is interested in some totally non-partial wine reviews (UK bias) and plenty of useful information, I heartily recommend this website for your perusal:

http://www.wineanorak.co.uk/

All free, all impartial, all far better written than I could ever manage. Jamie's book is also a spectacularly accessible tome that cuts through a lot of wine-crap, if you have even a passing interest in the science behind wine.

Here in Ontario Canada, with a population of some 13 million potential consumers of fine spirits {including those under 19 years of age } , liquor, beer and wine is only available for purchase from our state owned LCBO {liquor control board of ontario }.There are some exceptions for local wineries and beer producers.
The LCBO picks and chooses the products they wish to promote.There are independent importing agents but of course they must sell through the LCBO stores, and the LCBO supposedly being the largest purchasing agent in the world caries some clout.
Most of the year Ontarioans have available to them a selection of about a dozen better champagnes. Nearing the Christmas/New Year season the LCBO does expand the available selection and if we are quick and in the right store at the right time we can often purchase some gems.
Bollinger is one of those elusive gems.
The LCBO made available three Bollinger selections this year. The Special Cuvee, 97 La Grande Annee, and 96 R.D. Extra Brut. These were all released within the past 15 to 30 days. The 96 R.D. is sold out. There are currently 26 bottles of 97 La Grande available in our province , unfortunately they are all located in stores near our national and provincial capitals, at least an 8 hour commute away from my home.
My local LCBO store does have 6 bottles of the Special Cuvee available {the LCBO does have an extensive on line inventory system } so, hopefully there will be a bottle or two in stock by the time I get to the store .If David A. is reading this post please save me a bottle.
Here in Ontario this same hunter/gatherer mentality sets in when the better bottles become available.We have to bag the good bottles when they come in. We can always purchase from the USA ,but duties , taxes and gallonage fees turn a $20 purchase into a $45 bottle. The government always gets their cut first.
Our system does make finding good bottles much more exciting although often it does become a frustrating and dissapponting exercise.
But of course there is not much that compares to the enjoyment that comes from spending an evening opening a nice bottle of plonk, and slapping your favorite recordings into your Naim system.
Rod thank you for the link to wineanorak.
Cheers !
Jay

quote:

Originally posted by jz:
The 96 R.D. is sold out.

Hi Jay

Sounds like a mountain to climb! I had been led to believe that the Canadian monopoly system was getting easier - apparently not.

But if it's any comfort the first release of RD 1996 was sold out the world over in advance. In the UK we got around 200 cases and I had to fight quite hard to get one for myself (no staff discount). But then, 1996 was possibly the best ever vintage in Champagne. The next disgorgement will be in March and will be of a larger quantity. As is usual with RD there will be a third disgorgement, probably next September, and that will be it.
We are now supplying the 1999 Grande Année, so those last 27 bottles of the '97 in Ontario may be worth tracking down (will their system move it around for you?). Sounds more tricky than the Swedish monopoly, and that's saying something.

Have you ever come across Igor Ryjenkov, a fellow MW of mine, who is based in Ontario (somewhere)?

It used to be that the LCBO was the world's largest single purchaser of wine (some clout indeed) although this dubious accolade now falls to Tesco in the UK, who sell 1 bottle in 3 of all wine sold in Britain. Terrifying.

Thanks and congratulations on your stoicism in tracking stuff down...

Cheers

Rod

If you want to know what the real wine geeks drink have a visit at the following website:

http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/

Think the average bottle price on that forum is 60$ or more ...


the fat cat

Hi Rod,
very good post with which I wholeheartedly agree. As far as I am concerned, I just ordered some Burgundy wines (2005) from between 12 and 24 Euros, but refrained from buying the Nuits Saint Georges Premier Cru at 30 Euros (although I might regret it given the excellent year 2005). Are you coming over to France for a wine faire (Loire wines)? Cheers
Uwe

Hello Rod

Hunting down wine in Ontario is indeed exciting.

I did manage to secure two bottles of the Special Cuvee. One of which I hope to enjoy this week. I have also put in a request to have a bottle of the 97 Grand Anne transfered to my local, but it seems as though the LCBO is far more interested in selling wine in bags and boxes or tetra packs these days in an effort to become more environmentally responsible. My request for a product transfer was taken as though I was requesting that they donate their kidney to me. Nice , oh well we will see if the 97 comes in.

Igor R., no I never have had the privilege of meeting him and picking his brain. It looks as though he is the product consultant at the Summerhil LCBO.in Toronto...a four hour drive from my house, although I have visited his store ,as my wife's sister previously lived 3 blocks from his location. It was a vary nice store indeed.

Some of the local LCBO product consultants are quite helpful in negotiating the new wine releases, and will put up with my endless barrage of questions . If Igor was located closer, with his knowledge, the fine balance that I maintain between Hi-Fi, good wines and paying the electricity bill would probably be tipped in his direction.

But if you cant have a little fun in your life and enjoy some of the good things , then what is it all about? It seems as though most of us on this forum are quite privileged in that respect.

I have had the opportunity to try numerous Champagnes, and have a few nice bottles put away down in the cellar, but this Bollinger will be my first. In the future I will keep my eyes open.

Thanks again,
Cheers
Jay

was in tescos today (sunday)and they have 25% off all wines today, so get down there pronto.
i came back with a shed load for xmas and beyond!

Or order online (spending over £50), use code XX-CERT and get another £15 off!!!!!!