Broken Hamster

The best thing would be to do nothing. Left alone this story will disappear should the Hamster recover completly.

To remind the powers-that-be in such a way as a petition will not, in my view, help.

Would stopping Top Gear not be something akin to shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted?

Let us all wish Hampster the very best and maybe he can become a voice of sanity in a new and more sensible version of a show that may educate petrol-heads about the virtues of driving motors that are highly fuel efficient at speeds that absolutely minimise fuel wasteage.

Utopian hope? I think most of us will live to see the IC engine as a thing of the past in personal transport whatever we might think about Utopia.

But I am sure what ever happens to TG, we all wish Hampster the very best in his continuing recovery.

Fredrik.

Well, it seems that Mr. Hammond is on the road to recovery and fingers crossed that things progress without complications.

Alot of what TG shows is stupid but often great fun to watch. There is the danger of what they are actually doing and the even greater danger of just how far they can push the nanny state before the great PC fingers are pointed at them for one last time and the programme pulled from air.

That to me was the danger faced by TG of any serious accident without full recovery from the pious tut-tutting lefty tree huggers who threaten to fall on them like a ton of bricks.

Red Ken wants to improve our lot in London and yet we continue to face a fleet of thousands of diesel belching mega-busses and heaven only knows how many polluting taxis overflown by tax free jet airliners.

So, yeah TG's stunts are often daft, but in the bigger picture, until these other issues are addressed, in my opinion, completely harmless.

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by Nigel Cavendish:
The best thing would be to do nothing. Left alone this story will disappear should the Hamster recover completly.

To remind the powers-that-be in such a way as a petition will not, in my view, help.

7320 people would disagree with you.

Petition

If you haven't signed yet, please do so now.

quote:

That to me was the danger faced by TG of any serious accident without full recovery from the pious tut-tutting lefty tree huggers who threaten to fall on them like a ton of bricks.

Red Ken wants to improve our lot in London and yet we continue to face a fleet of thousands of diesel belching mega-busses and heaven only knows how many polluting taxis overflown by tax free jet airliners.

Peter

I thought a) that the new London buses were hydrogen-fuelled and that b) David Cameron is a right-wing 'tree-hugger'... or is he too about to lose his job as Tory leader?

http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/article323747.ece

David Cameron will be whatever he thinks this week will enhance his popularity.
If TG wanted to get a point over, they should do an article on travelling between two random pins stuck in a map of the UK by public transport. Cost and time spent highlighted of course. If they kept on doing that they would be actively helping the environmentalists whilst justifying their own standpoint. Right now it could politically be a smart move.

Dear J.N. ,

Come now.

T.G. is for those of us who love cars, driving and all things to do with cars.

I presume that you will now read Which Magazine for HiFi reviews and buy the product placement of the month.

Probably.

Lets see J.N. with a Matsui all in one 200.00 special.

Oh yeah john.

What car do you drive.

I believe you had a Mini once.

Poor Hamster though.

I hope he makes a full recovery.

I also hope this is not the end for T.G..

Or even the presenters.

Yeah i enjoy Clarkson and his mutterings.

I really miss his writings from Performance Car days.

regards David

quote:

I thought a) that the new London buses were hydrogen-fuelled and that b) David Cameron is a right-wing 'tree-hugger'... or is he too about to lose his job as Tory leader?

Rupert

Extracts from Transport for London web site:

quote:

We have just finished fitting diesel particulate filters to each of the fleet's 8,000 buses, which capture 90 per cent of fine soot particles, carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons

Bus mileage in London is higher than at any time since 1957, with 450 million km operated in 2004/5

Admittedly cherry picking on my part but the hydrogen cell stunt is merely a trial flying the environmentally friendly kite whilst the fleet of diesel buses is growing at aphenomenal pace. Yes they are cleaner than the old double deckers, but everything is relative and to my mond they are still gross polluters of the London environment. Especially when you see how many of them go round virtually empty during the off peak hours.

As for Cameron - I have no preference for political parties on motoring issues each of which have engendered motorists to become an accepted soft target for taxation and blame games.

Peter

quote:

As for Cameron - I have no preference for political parties on motoring issues each of which have engendered motorists to become an accepted soft target for taxation and blame games.

Spot on.

Steve

Shouldn't motorists be challenged for their driving habits? Is it okay for massive 4WD's to be used where a small economic car would do the same job, ie the school run? Why is it that when walking my children to school we have to negotiate the BMW X5's that stop on the chevrons at the school gates and let out a small child while the pedestrians have to cross the road between these things. It's typical of the Fuck-You attitude of these wankers in their tanks, and I think they should be targeted, and bloody hard too. For some people they are appropriate, but not many.
I walked my daughter to school this morning and was offered a lift from a neighbour taking her daughter to school. We walked. I left the school gates as they were walking in - late, so what was all that about then? It's pathetic that people are so useless.

I don't see why trying to encourage a more responsible attitude to both driving and the environment is 'targetting motorists'. It's simply a matter of persuasion - which can hurt...

Clarkson's great hero is Brunel, so presumably he is a supporter of the train. Perhaps the great engineer would have invented a non-CO2 vehicle by now if he'd lived 150 years later. We can only hope that someone as inventive comes along soon.

quote:

Originally posted by rupert bear:
Clarkson's great hero is Brunel, so presumably he is a supporter of the train.

Nah..he's a supporter of bloody great big impressive things

quote:

Originally posted by Nigel Cavendish:
Richard Hammond was a skilled driver. What he was doing was not much different from what drag racers do every week-end. He was unlucky, not reckless or incompetent.

It has not yet and probably will never be televised.

Nigel,

if you mean drag racing isn't televised, I can tell you that it is (occaisionally), on one of the Ch.4 / 5 channels in the wee small hours.

cheers, Martin (insomniac)

PS best wishes to Hammy.

quote:

Shouldn't motorists be challenged for their driving habits?

Rather than just because they choose to drive something you disapprove of?

Let's not stop with 4WDs Rasher, why not people movers, sports cars, big thirsty saloons & estates nobody needs any of them.

Or just maybe in a free country they should be allowed to choose what they drive for themselves, rather than be dictated to by the self righteous.

Steve

quote:

I don't see why trying to encourage a more responsible attitude to both driving and the environment is 'targetting motorists'. It's simply a matter of persuasion - which can hurt...

I'm sure I read a quote similar to that from Gerry Adams, I'm just trying to recall if he was wearing a balaclava at the time.

Meanwhile it's fine for taxi and bus drivers to tear round the streets of London day and night in their empty vehicles gassing the lot of us with diesel fumes. Then again, Red Ken was and no doubt remains a particular friend of the Provos. Nothing wrong with a bit of hurting, eh?

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by J.N.:
'Top Gear' used to be about motoring for the majority of the car buying public.... It has become a ludicrous parody of itself, whereby everything currently has to be bigger, louder and faster on TV....

remember - it's entertainment. as such, they're very entertaining with an undercurrent of automotive jounalism underpinning some hillarious "tests" - hammond in a cayenne racing a parachutist? fan-tas-tic! if you want high-brow motoring dicussion - join a "just-so" car club. in the mean time I'll tune in to TG to get a dose of graduated filters long-since forgotten by 80's car magazines, hyperbole, ego, occasionally dubious driving talent on their test circuit, and the tongue-in-cheek pipe-and-slippers persona of Mr May. fabulous.

Top Gear just not serious or real-world enough? What next - how to pass the time on the M4/M25? Oh lordy, have you considered hormone replacement therapy?

cheers

quote:

Originally posted by Steve S1:
Or just maybe in a free country they should be allowed to choose what they drive for themselves, rather than be dictated to by the self righteous.

It is, and they do. If people would act with a little more responsibility there wouldn't be a problem, but if someone is going to needlessly polute our planet, someone is eventually going to have to take action. You think we're going to breath this shit in and watch our children suffer just because some idiot wants a big toy? NFW. People need to grow up and see what they are doing. Take a walk on the hills and see the low cloud of haze that sits over the land. We're living in that - breathing it all the time. Sometimes I'm amazed we don't all have cancer.

quote:

It is, and they do. If people would act with a little more responsibility there wouldn't be a problem, but if someone is going to needlessly polute our planet, someone is eventually going to have to take action. You think we're going to breath this shit in and watch our children suffer just because some idiot wants a big toy?

Rasher,

Not much room for rational discussion here is there?

If by "big toy" you mean a 4x4, then it's worth noting that the majority are diesel and average 25-35 mpg. Gas guzzling? Only a tabloid journalist could get to that conclusion. Is it because they are big? If so, they weigh little more than most Executive Saloons or are they banned too?

This type of emotion is well fanned by the media and people with commercial interests in trains & buses (like Transport 2000). It's about as logical as assuming that all environmentalists are bicycle riding, tree huggers in rainbow wigs.

You seem to vent your ire against people that make choices that you wouldn't make. The problem with this is that we are all minorities in some shape or form and it might be your freedom next.

As regards the haze on the landscape, you should be as worried by what is not visible. Vehicle emmissions are still a snowflake in the avalanche of industrial output.

Incidentally, a recent survey has concluded that prohibitive pricing of public transport (outside of London) is increasing car ownership again. London being the exception because the buses are still publically owned. How green is that? Of course as long as we can keep turning on each other's use of cars - this sort of scandal will persist.

Regards,

Steve.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve S1:
...(of 4x4s) the majority are diesel and average 25-35 mpg.

Sorry to butt in on a private argument, but in fairness, that 25-35mpg will not be in 'urban cycle'...


Moving on ... is it possible to discuss this kind of subject without the polemic, I wonder? It is so easy for it to become another 'Clarkson vs Porritt handbags at 10 paces' with the world looking on with its fingers in its ears, going 'la, la, la...' Nobody is interested. But we should be.

None of us lives in our own little bubble. Our lives and existence touch other peoples', and theirs ours. So personal freedom must have alongside it personal responsibility and accountability.

These 4x4s. We can all find ways of justifying ourselves, but come on, be honest, for most people they are toys and trophies - as are, yes, big executive saloons.

Even as someone who lives in rural area, I see market town small roads clogged by 4x4s that never been anywhere near any mud. And in urban areas it's worse.

Some offroaders are used by deep rural dwellers and farmers; and some are used to tow caravans...

Though at least as much of a worry in this area is the damage inflicted by bull bars in collisions with people.

I am not sure I can wipe out conspicuous consumerism, even if I wanted to. But within the concept of personal freedom, responsibility and accountability must surely go alongside our conspicuous consumerism, as it has an affect beyond ourselves.

I choose to run my Naim equipment all the time - if Russ Andrews is to be believed this is chaper than leaving on a lightbulb. Although I am still a hypocrite for leaving my Naim gear on 24/7, I can choose other more significant areas to reduce my energy use - both domestically and in a work environment as and when I have the opportunity.

Domestic vehicles are not the highest on the guilt list, we all know. But that shouldn't, I believe, lead us to pretend they don't matter at all in the scheme of things.

If I assault someone, it is not an excuse to say, 'but I didn't kill them'.

Realistically, how many of us are ever going to have an opportunity to drive a Hamster-smashing jet car, or own a £squillion sportscar? The 'fastest car' is more like it! (And I would ban those...)

That there is a problem with public transport doesn't condemn public transport per se. It just means something has to be done about it (thank you those who privatised it...).

James

What really annoys me to be honest are the parents taking their child to school in a 4x4 when schools are allocated according to easy walking distances. There is little need for parents to drive their children to school in the first place and certainly no justification for it being in a 4x4. 25-30 mpg really isn't good enough for a car around town when the appropriate car would give double that. I don't think there is anything wrong with the right vehicle for the right job, and in a rural environment a 4x4 would be apppropriate, as would an executive saloon to someone doing 200 miles a day.
I work in architecture on a lot of schools and we relate our buildings to the scale of the children. In primary and junior schools we keep roof heights down with eaves at door head height so that the children don't feel overwhelmed by the scale. Can you imagine what it feels like to a 4 year old being led across a road to the school gates gridlocked with Range Rovers and BMW X5's? It must be terrifying. It's intimidating enough for the adults but to the children these things are monsters, and you can't see over them to see what's coming, you have to go between them and peer around them standing in the road. It's not right Steve.
I rememebr coming home from work one day to find the road outside the house parked with 2 Land Rover Discovery's, a Grand Cherokee Jeep and Mitusbishi LWB. It was like the flippin' Blue Peter safari out there!! It was just a few kids come round to play. Unbelievable.

Do you travel by aeroplane - ever?

quote:

Originally posted by Nigel Cavendish:
Do you travel by aeroplane - ever?

Yes Nigel.

quote:

I don't think there is anything wrong with the right vehicle for the right job

With regard to Top Gear, I see no problem with the programme promoting exoctic cars, because those cars spend most of their life in the garage and come out at weekends to do low milages. Nothing wrong with that at all in the great scheme of things. Putting an Aston Martin around a track is brilliant - I'd love to do it. What I think they have slightly wrong is A-B in a race - stuff like that on the public roads. There is a need for a programme like this on TV and they do it well overall. I love it. It's just TV though, we shouldn't take it too seriously. It doesn't relate to the way we live our lives day to day and we have to take responsibility and consider the wider picture. TG is only TV entertainment - there is no political viewpoint being offered in it. It isn't meant to be taken seriously.

quote:

Can you imagine what it feels like to a 4 year old being led across a road to the school gates gridlocked with Range Rovers and BMW X5's? It must be terrifying. It's intimidating enough for the adults but to the children these things are monsters, and you can't see over them to see what's coming, you have to go between them and peer around them standing in the road. It's not right Steve.

Rasher it's precisely this sort of thinking that leads parents to think they need a 4x4 in the first place! The obsession with keeping their little cherubs safe.

You make an excellent case for looking at how schools/local authorities deal with transport to and from school. Particularly the parking & dropping off of kids.

The four year old is not going to find estate cars, people carriers and white van man any less terrifying.

Let's be honest those mothers are clogging up roads around schools because they have been successfully frightened away from allowing kids to walk and/or get buses. Our perception of risks/benefits has changed beyond recognition.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Steve S1:
Let's be honest those mothers are clogging up roads around schools because ...

I was trying to be gender non-specific, but now you've nailed it - yes - that's them! Blokes don't seem to be the problem, and I'm not sure why there is a difference.
Heads down...