which sounds better CD or Vinyl..???

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
I even find music on a Model One Tivoli radio is often very engaging.

No distraction idiocy of liner notes and wasted space on shelves with radio or H[ard] D[rive] storage, where I would rather have books.

Point 1 I'm with you 100% George, the lively Tivoli always tickles. An iconic piece.

No so sure about Point 2: album art, album odour, the ritual of it, the beauty of some crafted liner notes, the odd bit of dutch baccer dropping out after years in hibernation, old price stickers from Woolworths giving the price in guineas, the crafty bit of artwork down in the sleeve, a bit of texture like on English Settlement...all part of the deal for me. Extremely important in my little world.

quote:

Originally posted by 555:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Lacey:
Please ...

Until I encountered Mike I had failed to grasp the Aussie occa phrase up yourself.
Thanks for being an example Mike.

Giggles...

I can *smell* the indignation...

Have you ever heard the phrase, "hoist by his own petard?"

Anyway:

Occa

Occa

Ocker

quote:

I can *smell* the indignation...

No Mike, that's your smouldering self-importance.

Oddly enough, I've recently played a VERY early CD copy of "Avalon", which I once ( 20 years ago? ) took as the near peak of sound.

It sounded horribly dull and muted, particularly when compared against an HDCD coded Roxy Music Greatest Hits album with overlapping material.

M

Vinyl & CD performance has moved on a long way in 20 years.

CD I'd agree, but some very old vinyl can sound superb. Look at early Beatles, for example. The old Parlaphone stuff still sounds amazing if in good order.

I don't think you are comparing like with like Mike.
IMSMC early vinyl had replaced shellac by the late 1940's.

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:

If the music is engaging, I could not care less what the medium or means of replay might be!

ATB from George

The thing is that some of us, myself included, find music via the CD medium to be consistently, significantly less engaging than music reproduced from vinyl (possibly even shellac).

There are as we are all aware some pretty bad examples of vinyl around but that hardly damns the whole medium? (By that logic Italian food is crap after what my daughter created in an attempt at spaghetti bolognese last night.)

Given that much of the vinyl I'm buying these days is ultimitely digital (at higher bit and sample rates than CD) then there is hope that higher definition digital downloaded to hard disk, while possibly not equaling the potential of all analogue reproduction, will prove sufficiently engaging, at least for my ears.

In the meantime a little pre-bedtime Bach (analogue start to finish) is called for...

Willy.

quote:

The thing is that some of us, myself included, find music via the CD medium to be consistently, significantly less engaging than music reproduced from vinyl (possibly even shellac).

Dear Willy,

I am always struck by this one.

How much do you love music?

I have no inherent objection to any replay medium [beyong irritation with the space the software and replay hardware take up], and I love music so much that even if I had to listen to it through 1920s iron driver Type F "Browns" headphone from a crystal set then I would still enjoy the music.

My music enjoyment is not conditional on the style of replay, and hardly at all even on quality Transistor radio with an earpiece would be quite enough even now ...

I appreciate that for some enjoying music is indeed conditional - conditional on having the exact right replay set up in in the most proper way, and conditional on the specific replay medium being used.

I have run both modest and very fine replay sets including a Naim set consiting of CDS2/52/200/ SBLs, and currently I am using Sennhaiser HD 415 heasdphones ditrectly off my PC sound card [not even using my Lavry D10 at this exact time till I sort out some further PC arrangements], and that is because I have not thought to make the effort to set up my 72/hi/140/Royd combo at least till I get the PC driving the Lavry in the proper arrangement.

The only thing is that I now think I never shall! I shall use the headphone out on the Lavry which is excellent. Far better than a minimum standard necessary for me!

It is so nice listening to music in the absolute certainty that no one else has to put up with my favourite noise! Well it might be noise to them ...

I have gone full circle in this respect for I used to listen to Radio Three concerts from the age of ten in bed with a little ear piece, and was totally absorbed by the music! The radio was an ITT KB Junior - just LW and MW. For AA sized batteries ...

Even returning to that level would not be hard for me.

ATB from George

Senheiser and Brown's headphones:







It is certainly true that these now over eighty year old Brown's Type "F" headphones have given me pleasure over a longer period than any other replay component.

They are entirely adequate to enjoy music through.

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:

quote:

The thing is that some of us, myself included, find music via the CD medium to be consistently, significantly less engaging than music reproduced from vinyl (possibly even shellac).

Dear Willy,

I am always struck by this one.

How much do you love music?

George,

Rather a lot. From listening into radio Luxembourg late at night on a portable with earphone, through playing my first albums on my sister's Fidelity stereo, saving up my summer earnings for a Rega Planar 3 and then onto an LP12. Dropping out after university to work in a Linn/Naim dealer meant I could listen to music most of the day, and well into the night as well. I have lugged my system all over and when that wasn't possible invested in a sony walkman pro so I could survive long haul flights (and weekends by the pool in California:-).
So since early teens it's been a constant, and at times a need.

Currently I have a CD player in the car and an iPod both of which get a reasonable amount of use. I no longer have a CD player in my system at home because it never got used as, to my ears, the turntable, wether playing true analogue or modern high resolution digitally mastered pressings, is so much more engaging. It's as simple as that.

I suspect that played through your type "F"s that I'd still enjoy the turntable experience over CD.

Regards,

Willy.

quote:

Originally posted by 555:
Never fails to amaze me how vinyl extremists overlook the large number of sonically poor releases on the black stuff.

Its not a matter of being a vinyl extremist!!!
or a CD "silver surfer" for that matter you are perfectly correct about quality...the same applies to CD and the "BLACK STUFF" is still a far sexier way to play music !!!! IMO

If George is honest for him any device that emits an audio version is an aid memoir for the music that he is actually hearing in his head stemming from a deep involvement in that music over a significant period as a musician.

For the majority of us the audio is 'everything' because we cannot hear the music in our mind without it.

As for the actual question I'll take Vinyl if I can. If I can't get it on Vinyl then CD is an OK alternative.

regards
Geoff

quote:

Its not a matter of being a vinyl extremist!!!

My point was that you can't dismiss any recording format,
because they all have strengths & weaknesses,
unless you are an extremist.
I say down with formatism!

quote:

Originally posted by 555:
My point was that you can't dismiss any recording format

Good point, unless the truth is out there, somewhere

Hi-di-ho!

quote:

Good point, unless the truth is out there, somewhere

I am also a believer Fred!

quote:

Originally posted by 555:

quote:

Its not a matter of being a vinyl extremist!!!

My point was that you can't dismiss any recording format,
because they all have strengths & weaknesses,
unless you are an extremist.
I say down with formatism!

Previous time I bought Mrs Willy a car it was specified with a CD changer. This time it was specified with an iPod dock. (Not sure what the format de jour will be for my replacement as no matter how hard I try I can't kill my bloody Honda).

It'll be interesting to see how CD fares against downloads. I can't think offhand of anyone I know (in person) who still uses CD (other than in the car). Most of my non-audiophile acquantainces are toting ipods, often replayed through some very dubious integrated ghetto-blaster things. No doubt it will linger on in ever reducing numbers for the audiophile market but even there surely there'll be a shift to hi-def downloads.

Would it be considered extremist of one format to dismiss another?


Willy

Both have their merits IMO.
I find that I use CD as it is so much more convenient than vinyl. But to me vinyl is a more enjoyable experience for me both sonically and in the handling.
There was a time I could tell you the length of any given track, the musicians that had played on it, the engineer, the producer and so on. But those little CD booklets are so bloody annoying I can't be arsed anymore. (Maybe that's a good thing. It does sound a bit anal when you actually write it down!).
In CD's favour is the lack of an unexpected pop or click during a quiet passage of music.
Regards,
Steve.

I currently use two sources in my main system (CDP & tuner), but I don't dismiss any.
There are various reasons vinyl isn't for me currently,
but I won't go into detail here for fear of provoking formatists.

Logically music end users are moving to files,
but for my ears the quality of standard resolution isn't good enough to be enjoyable.
The other issue for me is security of the music collection.
I fear it's going to be along time before a significant amount of copyright holders are prepared to release in a hi-res format because of piracy.

When a time comes that I can't enjoy the music I desire, because it's only available as a file I'll add something suitable to my system, although it will have to be a stealth upgrade for the usual domestic reasons!