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The Leica course

Posted by: Mick P on 25 June 2003

Chaps

I have just spent the last two days attending a course, at Leica HQ in Milton Keynes, on how to use a M6.

This was a damn good course and I now reckon I have gone from being pretty useless to fairly good. If any of you own a M6, I seriously recommend this course to you.

One of the intersting discussions was on 35mm v digital.

Evidently the feeling within the trade (not just Leica) is that 35mm and digital will co-exist beside each other for many years to come.

The feeling is that customers will continue to buy a decent 35mm SLR and expect it to last for 8/10 years. The digitals are only expected to have a useful life of 4 years but will continue to be outdated or replaced by another model after 8 or 9 months. So most of use will own and use 2 cameras.

Not only is digital improving but 35mm film is also getting better, so it really is a two horse race.

Also the M7 (M6 with auto exposure) is selling well and the new MP (lovely name) which is pure mechanical is also exceeding expectations, so the market in top end range finders is doing well.

I found the course excellent and I was amazed at what I have learned.

I even went out and photographed rusty bits of metal.

I am genuinely pleased that I own a M6 and I suggest you all go out and buy one.

Regards

Mick...now wanting to retire to do more photography.
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
I am genuinely pleased that I own a M6 and I suggest you all go out and buy one.


No thanks, I'm not keen to downgrade...

Regards
Steve
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Mick P
Steve

Ah yes I forgot....you like carting some old medium format around......I like street photography where you have to think on your feet and compose straight away.

Still it's a free world.

Regards

Mick
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Former member
quote:
I am genuinely pleased that I own a M6
Maybe Leica have a forum you could join ....?
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Mick P
Patrick

That would be preaching to the converted.

The purpose of this particular posting is two fold.

1. To encourage the several other Leica M6 owners, who frequent this forum, to enroll on the course.

2. To encourage those such as you to buy a M6.

Regards

Mick
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Joe Petrik
Mick,

What film do you shoot and what do you do with it after you've shot it?

Joe
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Mick P
Joe

I shoot with Kodak gold 200.

I send it to a local lab.

I gets good results.

The Leica staff were totally divided over what type of film to use.......it ranged from 100 up to 400.

I have just run out of film and I buy in bulk. What film do you use ?

Regards

Mick
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Former member
Film type totally depends on your situation. A good compromise is to keep a good 400 speed negative film in your camera for day to day usage as this is a good compromise.

For outdoor shots on sunny days try Fuji Velvia (a 50 speed slide film) for some incredibe colours. If you shoot black and white I like Ilford Delta 100. For indoor or night shooting I prefer either one of the Fuji pro emulsions (Fuji NHGII 800 is great and can be pushed to 3200 with a little luck) if colour is your game or Ilford Delta 3200 for some real gritty B&W shots. Avoid high speed slide films, they do not work well IME.

For a really good intro and loads more info, go here: http://www.photo.net/equipment/film
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Joe Petrik
Mick,

I don't mean to sound rude, but if you shoot Kodak Gold 200 and send it to the local lab for processing, why even bother with a Leica? It's akin to having a big-boy hi-fi system and playing nothing but scratchy department store LPs and crappy reissue CDs.


quote:
What film do you use ?


For colour slide, I mainly shoot the various Fujichromes -- Astia (for people pix), Provia 100F (for general shots) and Provia 400F (for low-light pix). When I want super-saturated colours, I tend to shoot Fujichrome Velvia, but I've recently tried Ektachrome 100VS and have had good results with it for the effect I intended -- painterly, over-the-top colour.

For B&W slide, it seems the only choice is Agfa Scala. I've recently bought a five-roll brick of Scala and once I've shot a roll or two I'll let you know what I think.

For colour print, I mainly shoot Fuji NPS (160-speed film) and Fuji NPH (400-speed film). To be honest, I rarely shoot colour print film and others would be in a much better position to comment.

For B&W that can be processed at a local lab (C-41 process), Kodak Porta 400BW gives me consistently good results and a nice tonal range.

Vuk and Ron T are the guys to ask about traditional B&W films like Tri-X, Plus-X, T-Max, the Ilford Deltas, the Fuji Neopans...

Joe

[This message was edited by Joe Petrik on WEDNESDAY 25 June 2003 at 17:09.]
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Petrik:

For B&W slide, it seems the only choice is Agfa Scala. I've recently bought a five-roll brick of Scala and once I've shot a roll or two I'll let you know what I think.



I'll be interested to hear how you get on. I've 10 rolls of Scala in the fridge that I've been meaning to try out.

Regards
Steve
P.S. Provia 100F is my normal slide film and Astia my normal portrait slide film. I've pretty much stopped using Velvia these days. For colour prints I've never been a big fan of NPH or NPS so I mainly stick to Reala. There are loads of B&W print films I like but Ilford Delta is probably tops.

Regards
Steve
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by ErikL
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Petrik:
I don't mean to sound rude, but if you shoot Kodak Gold 200 and send it to the local lab for processing, why even bother with a Leica?


I couldn't agree more (although I'd say it's akin to having a big boy system attached to Bose speakers). Perhaps Mick should trade his M6 for a cardboard Kodak disposable. Razz
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by matthewr
Mick,

"I like street photography where you have to think on your feet and compose straight away"

If you are going to do Leica style street photography then the only film to use is Tri-X -- an old fashioed contrasty 400 speed B&W film which is a bit grainy but with a lovely smooth even grain that looks great.

You can buy it at online at 7 Day Shop for £1.49 + VAT or at Calumet on Wardour St. Soho for a little bit more. See http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=777_1_101_1012_10125&products_id=6196

It looks like this:



Matthew
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Joe Petrik
Steve,

quote:
I'll be interested to hear how you get on. I've 10 rolls of Scala in the fridge that I've been meaning to try out.


I'll be sure to post something once I've tried it, but, for what it's worth, Agfa Scala gets a ringing endorsement from Vuk. (He says it edges out even Tri-X for tonality, and tonality is Tri-X's bailiwick.)

Here's a Vuk Scala pic, probably taken with an M6 and 90mm Elmarit. If that pic is any indication, I have to say that Scala's tonality looks pretty damn good to me. But, to be honest, Matthew's excellent shot has every bit the tonality.

Joe
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by matthewr
But the Scala (presumably) has zlich grain and can be printed bigger more easily.

Matthew
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Joe Petrik
Matthew,

quote:
But the Scala (presumably) has zlich grain and can be printed bigger more easily.



Very likely. Not only is Scala one stop slower than Tri-X (200 vs 400 ISO), it's a newer emulsion, so presumably finer grained than an equivalent speed older-tech film.

Shouldn't we be discussing this elsewhere? ;-)

Joe
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Ian Hughes
Mick,

What did you feel that you got out of the course?

a. Knowledge?
b. Inspiration?
c. The chance to play with more M kit?
d. All of the above?

Have you considered courses at Duckspool or Inversnaid?
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Joe Petrik
Steve,

quote:
P.S. Provia 100F is my normal slide film and Astia my normal portrait slide film. I've pretty much stopped using Velvia these days.


Did you know that Fuji will soon be releasing Astia 100F and Velvia 100F?

Joe
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by matthewr
Joe said "Shouldn't we be discussing this elsewhere?"

Probably. I have a new lens -- my Ultron is an uneconmic repair (its a rare but known fault apparently) and I scuttled around looking for a good pre-ASPH Summicron 35/2 but the going rather seems to be £500+ so I went for another Voigtlander -- although the smaller 35/2.5 Color-Skopar as its cheaper and much smaller then the Ultron and unless you are a wide-open into the sun sort of character not much different (apparently). As 5.6 is about wide open as I ever seem to shoot the smaller lens looked a better bet. Plus its got one of those nifty focusing levers and I've been practiscing focusing at 1m, 1.5 and 3m without looking all day.

BTW There is a new Voigtlander 35/1.2 Nokton as well now. They really are very good at coming up with new products.

Brother's wedding on Friday (hence the rush) and currently deciding if I should take just the Bessa + 35, 50 and 75 or take the Nikon along for back up as well.

Matthew

Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Former member
Don't be too har on Kodak Gold 200, sometimes it is all that is available and remember, it is much better to get a shot with a bad film than miss it completely:



(forgive the terrible croping on this scan, I just noticed it. I had a 24x20 enlargement of this made up for a friend of mine, and it misses the bit of railing on the left of the image, makes it much nicer)

[This message was edited by ejt on WEDNESDAY 25 June 2003 at 23:07.]
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Mick P
Chaps

I shall buy some of the films you recommended.

I bought the Gold 200 in bulk about six months ago and have just used up the last roll,

Ian

I when on this course because it was run by Brian Bower who is a well known author on Leica.

The course was fine and I can go on from here by myself. I have never heard of the courses you mentioned.

Regards

Mick
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Joe Petrik
Matthew,

quote:
I have a new lens -- my Ultron is an uneconmic repair (its a rare but known fault apparently)...


Shouldn't a known fault be covered by the manufacturer?


quote:
Brother's wedding on Friday (hence the rush) and currently deciding if I should take just the Bessa + 35, 50 and 75 or take the Nikon along for back up as well.


You must be in a rush. You seem to have no time to type even the two-letter possessive pronoun my. ;-)

Take the Nikon. It's smart to have a back-up and you might need to use TTL flash, something Nikon's pretty good at.

Joe
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Former member
Inspiration:

Everyone who owns a Leica should read this

Everyone who owns a camera should read this
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Former member
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Petrik:
Matthew,

Take the Nikon. It's smart to have a back-up and you might need to use TTL flash, something Nikon's pretty good at.


Forgive me for being devils advocate, but assuming your brother is going to have a professional to cover the wedding, I suggest that you just relax and enjoy the event.
Posted on: 26 June 2003 by Top Cat
On Kodak Gold.

The real key to Gold is not in its capabilities, which are modest, but in the fact that (a) it is readily available in most countries in the world, (b) it tends to survive in less optimal conditions, such as the local grocery, without too much degredation, and (c) almost any lab in the world can produce a consistent result with it. The same cannot be said for many other films, some of which require constant calibration of developing machine channels to realise their potential.

Personally, I never use Gold. For me, I buy in bulk and it's mainly Velvia for MF, Kodachrome 25 for 35mm slide work (or Velvia or Provia F). For B&W it used to be Delta, but I'm exploring the new Tri-X, developing in Rodinal.

John

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 26 June 2003 by Former member
I often have a requirement to get high quality digital images and large proofs to clients and I have found what I think is a winning combination.

I shoot Velvia 120 (suits my purpose well) and then get it developed in my local pro-lab in an hour or so, then I take the trannies home and scan them with an Epson 3200 (£300) at 3200/6400 dpi. Then manipulate (crop and remove blemishes - eg scuff marks on an office door) in Photoshop and print out a 12x16 on my Epson 1290 (also £300) and mount on a pre-cut mount (20x16) and put in clear archive sleeve.

Image the client's impression when you turn up the following day with a proof presented like this - it's earned me a lot more than the £600 investment.


Mark
Posted on: 26 June 2003 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Top Cat:
but I'm exploring the new Tri-X, developing in Rodinal.


I'm not sure about the new Tri-X but the old one, when developed in Rodinal, was pleasantly grainy.

Regards
Steve