Reviews and Reviewists

Posted by: plynnplynn on 30 June 2002

This is not meant to be the type of question which sets member against member depending on their particular preference of hifi boxes.

I am however curious as to why people who have no Naim kit in their current system contribute on a regular basis to this Forum and make confident judgemental statements about Naim kit. In this category I don't include people who may 'dip' into the Naim Forum over a short period of time if they are considering the purchase of new equipment

I ask this question as sometimes I have found contributions from members to be rather difficult to understand - relative to my own experience - or relative to what might be the usual response in the Forum.

To find out why a particular response has been given, I occasionally look up the user profile of the member to get details of their system. On numerous occasions (surprise, surprise) the contributor owns not a single item of Naim equipment.

Comparing items of equipment from different manafuacturers may well be an thoroughly entertaining activity but the comparisons are only competent if the listening has been carried out within a controlled environment. What for example is the point of comparing pairs of speakers when cabling is not optimised for the systems in question? Why even comment on the virtues of a CDX against some other CD player when the comparison is carried out within a system for which optimisation has not been attempted?

Most people in this Forum I think agree that Naim equipment works best or most sympathetically with other Naim equipment (not surprising). Spurious or non-controlled comparisons of items of Naim equipment carried out against items from other manufaturers proves very little.

I know I am stating the obvious but new members beware. Read the comments offered here about equipment and evaluate them carefully. Think of the system context of any equipment comparison before making a decision about an item. Look at the system context before accepting the outome of a review - and look out for the reviewists who may tell us that a Naim item is inferior to some other item resulting from a test in a non-Naim system.

Having said that it is entertaining to engage with people who have an interest in hifi whatever their persuasion or particular preference with respect to equipment. It is great to see that this Forum flourishes and is deemed to be a valuable and interesting place for 'Naimies' and 'non-Naimies' to mix and share ideas. So 'non-Naimies' what is it that attracts you here?

Terry

[This message was edited by plynnplynn on SUNDAY 30 June 2002 at 16:37.]
Posted on: 30 June 2002 by J.N.
according to one of the great philosophers.

Holds true even here I'm afraid.

Us Naim owners enjoy a sense of brotherhood and belonging.

Other 'tribes' do not understand us; so beat their chests and make grunting noises to ward of the evil ones!

Don't get me started on football supporters.
Posted on: 30 June 2002 by davewarehouse
My first car was a Mini 1000. A year on(when I wrote it off!) It was a mini 1380 with 0-60 in under 10 seconds. Then came the MG metro, Then the XR2...Rs Turbo, each car receiving upgrades along the way.
My point?
Some of the best ie most accurate posts are from ex-Naim users. Just because I drive a RS Turbo, does this mean I am no longer qualified in giving advice to a MG Metro, XR2 etc driver looking to upgrade their cars?
I have been there 1st hand, and have moved on...Surely some ex-Naim users have done the same?
Posted on: 30 June 2002 by Andrew Randle
I used to own Naim, but defected eek

However I still appreciate the quality of Naim and it's a great place to meet people with similar afflictions. Also the Music Room is a very valuable place for me (and I hope to make a contribution soon when I receive my new cartridge - currently using my CD Player).

Having said this, nowadays I tend to contribute more to Tony's Pink Fish forum. A great place because it holds no allegiences to any particular manufacturer, and acts as a great place to discuss Flat Earth issues.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
Posted on: 30 June 2002 by Mike Sae
Hey James,

Mark me down as Type I, II and III!



smile
Posted on: 30 June 2002 by Steve Toy
My own posts reflect my auditioning of Naim systems at my dealer in his demo room, who on occasions affords me quality listening time with a variety of kit for that purpose.

Where auditioning of kit has taken place in my own system or that of others, this has always been stated.

There is no hearsay from me, only hear-post!

Regards,

Steve.

The proof of the pudding...
Posted on: 01 July 2002 by herm
Type IV

Haven't we forgotten one particular type, the one that just loves to Spend Other People's Money?

His advice is very simple. Are you thinking about a cdplayer? Don't waste your time: get a CDSII.

So amp wise, what are the options? Getting a s/h 72? Putting a second Hi-Cap on your NAC 82? Forget about it. You need a 52! (Soon this will be old hat. The 52 will be a thing of the past. If you really want to hear the music, get a 552.)

The upgrade path is always the same, irrespective of your means, wishes, room, family circumstances, and the limits one has set oneself. The idea that enjoyment of one's stuff somehow is a computation of the kit and one's budget, is psychologically beyond type IV. Get a second mortgage! Why take your family on a vacation? Why live if you can listen (and post about your top gear)?

Typically one never hears the guys about the music they like.

This advice can be based on personal experience, but basically all you need is the dealer's price list to be able to dispense this kind of recommendations.

Herman
Posted on: 01 July 2002 by belsizepark
I tend to agree with you. There do seem to be Type IVs.

As far as they are concerned the only kit worth considering is Naim kit and the more expensive Naim kit is better than the cheaper Naim kit, so the recommdation for improvement always is to go for a more expensive piece of Naim kit.

Also I have noticed Type Vs...

Source first above all else..

These people at least are consistent. Someone may pose a question saying that they are not happy with their speakers and Type V will suggest the soution to be adding a XPS to the CDX..


When reading responses to peoples quesries, I often look at the name of the person responding and anticipate correctly the gist of the response before actually reading the response..

Please do not ask me to catagorize people as I will not do it... I will also add that some people on the forum are exceptionally helpful and knowledgeable. I would ratrher also not single them out as that might also imply who I have less respect for..

Have a nice day everyone and happy listening...

As an aside Eric Clapton Unplugged - Track 7 - Layla - sounds something else on my Naim Kit.. I knew I purchased Naim for a reason...

Regards

Belsizepark
Posted on: 01 July 2002 by Frank Abela
Currently, I do not own any Naim equipment. I am an ex-Naim owner (62/90 followed by 82/hicap/250) of some ten years. I had a change of tack a couple of years ago, with which I am still happy.

I believe it's useful to have 'external' views on the subject since it brings greater scope and experience to the forum. Of course, it helps if members of the non-Naim contingent have a good appreciation of the Naim philosophy. If they're too far 'off the wall' then their opinions can be of only limited benefit. I also understand that my opinion often differs with a true Naimophile's. This is why you will often see me state my view and then not reply to differences of opinion. The idea of the forum is to have this freedom to differ.

Of course, discussion is always a good thing in order to come to agreement on baselines, but in the end the choices one makes come down to many factors including dealers, cost, aesthetics, presentation style, philosophy and any number of other influences.

I am an unusual case however (as my girlfriend would be the first to attest). I justify my position in several ways:

1) the experience of my home ownership of Naim amps, some ten years or so.

2) I have worked as a Saturday lad in one of the more successful Naim retailers for the last 7 years (that long???). The dealership always has a Naim system going and the continuous exposure to the various parts of the Naim range has given me (I feel) a very good understanding of Naim equipment, as well as customers' wants and needs.

3) I believe I have a rapport with several Naim employees, which gives me an insight into the philosophy of the company as a business, as well as the company as a community of human beings united by a common cause (it is very much like that).

4) I still feel a certain allegiance to the brand (and, I guess, the people), since it has certain strengths which are - if not unique - certainly rare in the HiFi community. Hey, I get my Naim-jab every week on Saturdays. Perhaps if I stopped working at the shop, I might revert to a Naim system since I wouldn't get so much exposure to that Naim kick - who knows?

That said, my position in the forum is a difficult one. I try not to advertise that I am 'in the business'. I don't like to come across as looking for business since all I want is to share some of the experience I have gleaned, as I feel I have a fairly different view. That said, I can't be a completely open window - some information is meant to be kept quiet until the supplier says we can talk about it.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.
Posted on: 03 July 2002 by silklee
I think as for myself, I started off as type 1 then moved on to type II (though I never did claim to own any eqt that I didn’t have) and I would like to say I am type III now.

I think newbies tends to get excited too quickly and easily form opinions which could be right or wrong. And in my personal experience, I have seen many newbies who like to help fellow newbies not knowing whether they are giving the correct advice or not. And to save themselves, they will just put a disclaimer like ‘my 2 cents’ or something to that effect. This is all done with the best of intentions and you cant really fault them, can you?

As for myself, the more I stick my foot into hifi, the more I realise how complex and how subjective hifi and music actually is. Made me feel embarrassed about some of the things that I have said before. and I realise I have been mis-using some of the terms and in turn might have mislead others.

So now I tend to read more and ask more and keep my opinions to myself, away from open forums.