St Matthew Passion

Heard sections on Radio Three on Saturday morning.

I would look elsewhere for this has some fairly serious problems, and reviewers never seem to mention these any more ...

Sorry to be negative,

George

Hi George - I'd be interested to hear your reasons, if you have the time. I've just realised that it's One Voice Per Part, which may just be enough to put me off, anyway. I'll probably end up buying some jazz for the weekend instead!

I only have one SMP, on Naxos, but it's a good one, suitably reverent in tone, and firmly in touch with the religious heart of the music. I've heard bits of Gardiner's version, and didn't like it much at all - way too much emphasis on manufacturing "drama", which misses the point for me, I'm afraid.

Nigel

Nigel, when it comes to SMP, I really do value George (Fredrik)'s views. It is a work he knows very, very well, in both live and recorded performance.

You might find this thread of almost exactly a year ago to be of interest. I called it 'Building a Library' but it only ever talked about SMP before becoming a closed topic!

In the end I went for the Hermann Max recording on Capriccio, which is a 'historic instrument' recommendation on the Radio 3 list supplied by KenM (and affordable - £8 or so on Amazon I seem to recall!). Very much ticked my box of 'preference for period instruments, without it being a clinical exercise'

James

That is the one to get. I have not got it yet, but I shall do later this year! I have heard some of it!

I have the venerable and fine, if now bettered, set on DHM from Leonhardt!

So sorry to be unenthusiastic about the new recording.

George

Dear Droo!

The one to a part issue undermines the essential contrast between the "characters" presented in Solo, and the "crowd" presented on Choir albeit that the Choir performing is a double Choir, but not preferably with more than at most four singers to a part. Three is a good number per part in practice, though two works as well. Bach uses the contrast very dramatically, and it makes a nonesense of his carefully calculated, practical, and natural effects. I bet the review did not mention this issue though.

There is is a reason that there are Choir and Solo lines - Bach never did anything without good reason! Why performers then seek to alter his splendid conception in material, even textual ways is beyond me!!! Get the version James point up!

I totally agree that Gardiner misfires in this. It is all to hard now to admit to real conviction in the words in these, such secular times, and the concentration becomes on a sort dramatic over-view, which is almost embarrassed by the actual message. Shame really because Gardiner's group is probably the most capable to have left a recording from the command of technique point of view.

ATB from George

As a matter of interest, I did a search for 'Bach Matthaus Passion Hermann Max' - Amazon UK does not seem to have it any more. Amazon US does.

Well I respectfully disagree with George about one-soloist-per-part performances inevitably lacking contrast between crowd and solo elements. I don't find this is a problem at all in the McCreesh version and would highly recommend this recording. The balance between organ (more prominent than usual) and orchestra is different to what many will be used to, but seems entirely natural in this performance. The church acoustic is very well captured. Rifkin and Parrott have argued persuasively for one-per-part. Many Bach lovers, having made the adjustment from Big Band Bach to 'semi-HIP' performance, find it a bridge too far. This doesn't make it wrong and anyone who loves this piece should hear this approach and make up their own mind. The only time I miss larger forces are in the chorales, when of course the audience would have joined in. So I'd argue that Bach did indeed know what he was doing! I'd love to hear a performance with minimum forces but large-scale chorales. Like this, perhaps?

Of the other versions I have, I enjoy the Herrewege (second version) very much and it has an outstanding set of soloists. It was my way into this marvelous work and a very good one. I also like the Suzuki, ironically it feels a more religious work in his hands than in many western versions. The Gardiner has the superb Monteverdi choir and is very dramatic but sometimes at the expense of spirituality. I find Richter unlistenable. This is a classic recording for many, but I learned this work though HIP performances and, so far, have found it impossible to adjust to the speed and scale of 'traditional' performances. I have another Japanese recording that is hors concours as my wife is one of the performers!

duncan

quote:

Originally posted by JWM:
As a matter of interest, I did a search for 'Bach Matthaus Passion Hermann Max' - Amazon UK does not seem to have it any more. Amazon US does.

And you can get it here:

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/7628141?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist

George, James & Duncan

Many thanks for your suggestions. I like the sound of the Hermann Maxx, and the Herrewege (I have a double CD of Bach cantatas from the latter, and like it very much). When the time comes to buy my second version, those will both be on my shortlist.

I'm glad I'm not alone in not liking the Gardiner. The technique is impressive, but, as has been said, it lacks heart, and - worse - misses the spiritual message of this great work.

Nigel

quote:

Originally posted by JWM:
As a matter of interest, I did a search for 'Bach Matthaus Passion Hermann Max' - Amazon UK does not seem to have it any more. Amazon US does.

Duly ordered. I was rather amused to note they've given "Johann Sebastian Bach" as the performer!

Dear Tony,

How fantastic that would have been. So much of the HIP dogma would be sidelined in one go!

George

Bit off-topic sorry, but has anyone had a listen to the new Dunedin SMP on Linn yet?

http://www.linnrecords.com/recording-matthew-passion.aspx

I've got my eye on this - I'm not exactly short of Matthew Passions, but one can never have enough...!!

EW

quote:

Bit off-topic sorry, but has anyone had a listen to the new Dunedin SMP on Linn yet?

Hardy off-topic EW - I asked the same questin at the start of the thread.

quote:

Originally posted by droodzilla:

quote:

Bit off-topic sorry, but has anyone had a listen to the new Dunedin SMP on Linn yet?

Hardy off-topic EW - I asked the same questin at the start of the thread.

Sorry Drood - I was just having a quick flick though the forum before going to bed and not paying attention!

It seems to be well liked, and the price is right at HMV:

http://www.hmv.co.uk/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?ct...;-1;-1;-1&sku=765525

Might give it a whirl.

Must start paying more attention!

ew

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