Remote lust...

Posted by: Top Cat on 11 June 2002

Hi folks.

Due to increasing pressure from the boss I am weighing the possibilities of changing my very non-automated/remote preamp for something with a remote and a single volume pot.

My DNM preamp may sound wonderful but twin volume controls are really beginning to piss me off. Especially as the gain makes a Nait-2's pot seem well calibrated. I ask you, a pair of volume pots which go 1..13, and I do most of my listening at 1, and even 2 on the pot is getting too loud to have a conversation without shouting.

Anyway, as I was planning to move up to the 3D series in the next wee while anyway, and putting aside my unresolved CD upgrade (I am in no rush for that) I am wondering what the current 'state of the art' is for preamps.

I have now heard a 52/SC. Whilst I think it's a cracking preamp, it's kinda expensive and not quite my cup of tea. The 552 is way too dear to be considered (even if I could afford it)!

So, Naim preamps aside (and the 82/SC is probably around the same sort of performance level as my DNM amp, or at least when I auditioned it originally that was how I felt about it), how does the competition stack up?

Particularly, I'm keen to hear a Dynavector preamp. Alex S, you have one, don't you - how are you finding it, six months or more down the line?

Also, am I overlooking anything else worth considering? The key consideration is a preamp which doesn't sacrifice any of the music but uses only one volume pot and has a remote.

A sad day when compromises like this must be made, but such is life...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 11 June 2002 by Paul Ranson
Pick up a second-hand Linn Kairn. Pro if you are already using a separate phono stage.

It has a sensible gain structure, and you can persuade it to automatically adjust the volume for sources that are 'louder' than the norm.

Now that was easy!

Paul
Posted on: 11 June 2002 by Top Cat
How does that stack up against (say) the 52? If it's not as good as a 52 it's not going to be any better than what I already have, and though I lust for a remote I really really don't want to sacrifice any sound quality...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 11 June 2002 by Frank Abela
I've recently heard what the DNM preamp does. Not my cup of tea as such but it swings and it boogies nicely in its own way I guess.

I suggest you have a listen to Linn's top preamp, not the Kairn. The Kairn isn't a patch on a 52 and doesn't really do the swing thing. The 5103 is a very capable preamp. It still has more of the Linn authority and doesn't swing as hard as the 52 and DNM but it ain't bad.

Another option you could try would be one of the Chord Electronics preamps (any from the 2200 up really). I don't think they'd be for you, but one never knows - you could be seduced by the extra bandwidth and resolution. They don't swing in the same way as the 52/DNM, nor do they have the Linn's authoritative character, but they are very neutral indeed with lots of bandwidth and good timing.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.
Posted on: 11 June 2002 by Rico
quote:
How does that stack up against (say) the 52?
TC

why use the 52 as a benchmark if its not your cup of tea? confused confused confused

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio
Posted on: 11 June 2002 by Paul Ranson
I'm not convinced by the 5103 in a hifi context at over £3200.

Perhaps theres a marketing opportunity for a competent 4 or 5 input line level switch and volume control with some ergonomic logic stuff? Shouldn't cost more than £1000.

Paul
Posted on: 12 June 2002 by Top Cat
quote:
Given that you like the DNM sound, why don't you change the power amp for DNM PA1 or PA3 (or if you want monos, Walrus have some s/h PA2 monoblocks for sale).


Yeah, I have thought about going down the DNM power amp route - the PA3^S is allegedly in a league of its own as 23w three grand power amplifiers go. Nonetheless, I'm just exploring the alternatives given that the dual volume pot thing doesn't really work so well in my system.

quote:
Have you been to the DNM site recently? They are canvassing customer opinion on whether to include a remote volume facility on the forthcoming 3D preamp series. Best let them know - with a bit of patience you may be able to satisfy your lust after all


Yeah, I've been in occasional email conversations with the Morecrofts, and the crux is that they argue that it's not possible to include a remote without influencing the sound in a negative way, and more than almost any other manufacturer, DNM isn't a company that's prepared to compromise - which is why we have plastic preamps, star-earthing, DIN plugs, low powered amps and two volume controls. A cynic might say that they only do this to be different; who am I to judge?

So, I'm not holding my breath about the remote facility - though I am sure that the 3D Six will blow awaything else at the price (estimated £5k) and it's still my preferred option. I only wish that it had a higher WAF and a remote...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 12 June 2002 by Top Cat
quote:
why use the 52 as a benchmark if its not your cup of tea?


It isn't my cup of tea with regard to moving up the chain, though it is a mighty fine preamp. I feel that it's a worthwhile improvement over my DNM 3B (but not having tried it in the context of my system it is difficult to say how much so) and it is a vast improvement over the 82/SC that my dealer has and that I rejected in favour of the DNM at the pricepoint.

My issue with it is that I find its tonal character (and the 82/SC too), whilst excellent, is just not entirely what I am seeking. Nothing major, just minor preference. Think of it as a fine white wine - excellent, easy to praise in the context of other white wines, but in my case I prefer red wine. So, no matter how fine the white wine, an equally superb red wine (such as the DNM is in this convuluted analogy) is preferable.

At the price (£5kish) the 52/SC will come in at about the same price as the 3D Six. Both will represent superb examples of their kind - except that the Naim is a white wine and the DNM a red. A subtle distinction, and if the stakes were lower this wouldn't be such an issue. However, at those sorts of prices, I am keen to choose the best preamp and power amps for my palate.

At £4000 for the complete amp system, the 3B and the Crimsons were as good as it got for me. In fact, they came in at a little over £3000 which was less than the comparable Naim preamp and PSU (the 82/SC) without a power amp - so you can see why I went down the path that I did.

However, upping-the-ante (Matron!) we're talking about preamps worth more than the total cost of my current pre and monoblocks, and so it would be a fool who'd leap into any such purchase without really looking at it from all angles.

The plan of attack (next five years) is:

New preamp (late 2002 or early 2003)
CD source (summer 2003, maybe sooner if funds allow)
New power amp(s) (???)

...meanwhile buying a ton of music and kicking back, getting married, selling my house, buying a bigger place, finding my fortune, buying my Tuscan S, getting a dog and a couple of cats, etc.

Simple, modern day aspiration!

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 12 June 2002 by aybee
quote:
Originally posted by ANOpax:
Given that you like the DNM sound, why don't you change the power amp for DNM PA1 or PA3
reg


Sorry but that won't solve the volume control problemo - '2' is all I need to frighten the neighbours, the PA1 input is no less sensitive than the Crimson's.

Alan
Posted on: 12 June 2002 by Rico
Reds and Whites? Apples with oranges. Stilton and chalk.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio
Posted on: 14 June 2002 by Top Cat
Hi Roy,

Firstly, there's nothing wrong at all with the 82 - it's a great preamp, but for my tastes I think a 52 would be the only Naim preamp (552 aside, perhaps) to really satisfy my own likes. However, the 82/SC didn't really convince me over the DNM I bought, but that's not to say that would be the case for everyone.

A 52 is quite simply a wee bit too pricy, and an 82/SC is a sidestep from where I am now. That does indeed leave me with a dilemma, and I think I'll end up remaining in the DNM camp unless a Dynavector demo can sway me otherwise - but this is a difficulty in itself as nobody in Scotland seems to deal in them...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 17 September 2002 by Top Cat
quote:
Given that you like the DNM sound, why don't you change the power amp for DNM PA1 or PA3


I finally did just this - and the Crimsons (200w monoblocks) have been part-exchanged for a single DNM PA3^S, a 23w stereo amp. Though the Crimsons have a heck of a lot of grip, grunt and sheer clout, the PA3^S pisses all over them in terms of grip at all volumes that I'd be likely to listen at.

I just can't believe that a 23wpc amp can sound so,... so.... BIG! Even driving the 4 ohm Petites, it completely destroys every other amp I've ever heard for excitement, engagement, musicality and fun factor. Sure, it's nothing much to look at and on paper specs it's very very puny indeed, but something about that amp is very clever and effortless beyond anything I've ever heard.

Let's put it another way: I've never heard a 500, but the PA3^S sounds much better than 135s by a large margin, so perhaps this unassuming three kilobuck box is a worthy alternative to the 500 for anyone wanting to buy a motorbike with the difference or something. Sure, it won't drive EVERYTHING to PA levels but I can't get my head round how it sounds like it does with only a puny 23 watts... it's quite simply astonishing.

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 17 September 2002 by Andrew Randle
TC,

I told you so... big grin razz

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Tip 1: Change your mains plug fuses at least once a year
Posted on: 17 September 2002 by Top Cat
Yes, I'm coming to Glasgow tomorrow and staying over at a friends place which is near to you as you know. As per my private email, you'll understand that I don't know when I'll be available or not, as it depends upon the visiting hours at HCI. However, I expect to definitely be free around 8pmish, hopefully sooner.

PA levels - well, I have never enjoyed excessive volume levels - either at gigs, via my drumming/bass playing or at home via my system - so in some ways my priorities are different from many. Can't believe the improvement the PA3^S has brought - it's staggering, way more than it ought to be - though the PA3^S we used wasn't even fully broken in, so there's more to come yet.

For Andrew: See above. Combined with my new Opus 21, it's pushed back the boundaries so much that I'm having difficulty believing! Though I am currently just using the Opus 21 with the Nait 2 and my Petite IIIs, which isn't quite so impressive (the Nait struggles to do Petite bass properly, or maybe that's the A5). My full system won't be reassembled until November, as I'm inbetween homes right now... smile

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."