A Farewell to Freedom

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:

quote:

So are we to take it that Mr Parry would like to see boorish disrespect made a criminal offence?

If it offends a social or religious group, then yes.

Regards

Mick

Mick, seeing as this forum is a social group, best consider yourself in a state of more or less perpetual guilt. I'll be expecting you to turn yourself in to the Swindon Constabulary forthwith.

Chaps

Your argument seems to be :-

Anyone has the right to make a racket etc during a formal minute of silence no matter who it offends. You should have the freedom not to remain quiet.

I can reluctantly accept that.

I just find it sad that people would actually want to make a racket etc even if they did not like the person or whatever. I am not a Catholic but I would observe the silence to the Pope out of respect to catholics in the crowd.

To my mind, being disrespectful to a religious group is on the same level as being disrespectful to a racial group.

I fail to understand the difference in values.

Yours perplexed

Mick

Of course a Police Force to be feared is always desirable for many folk in strong positions irrespective of their backgrounds innit.

http://www.uaf.org.uk/resources/PDFs/DL_generalelect05_108.pdf

http://www.seanf.de/fritz.jpg More repeats than the Beeb innit.

quote:

To my mind, being disrespectful to a religious group is on the same level as being disrespectful to a racial group.

I fail to understand the difference in values.

Dear Perplexed,

It's simple. Some of us feel that forcing non-Catholics to observe a moment of silence for a Catholic leader = being disrespectful to a religious group – actually, several religious groups. i.e., all those making up the non-Catholic portion of the crowd.

Personally, I'm more apalled by your insistence on legislating your own morality on others, under punishment of law if need be.

In the very possible event of Chelsea supportes effecting Hitler Salutes this evening at Munichs Olympic Stadium against Bayern tonight in the second leg. Taking into account like Scotland it is an essentially Catholic place I wonder how reaction will unfold. When England's National team play against another Nation during that other Nationas National anthem, there is ALWAYS chanting etc, etc going on, which is no different to interupting an 'official' minutes silence, shopuld these rowdies be hung drawn and quartered ?

Fritz Von Making a safer Britain by exposing steriotypical hypocryts for what they really are

Coming to an earlier point raised by Mick about respecting the leader of the Roman Catholic church.........

Many fans at Ibrox are Jewish........ should they be expected to respect the passing of the Pope ?

Fritz - Scotland is not an essentially Catholic place, it is more catholic (Note : no capital) than that as it is a place of diversification and unity.

Thanks for that, but I guessed you got my drift anyhow Jim ?

Cheers,

Fritz Von What a load of Ballacks

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:
Taking into account like Scotland it is an essentially Catholic place I wonder how reaction will unfold.

The 2001 census in England grouped all Christians together, however in Scotland there were seperate sections for Catholic, Church of Scotland and other christian.

At the time of the census 42.4% of the Scottish population was Church of Scotland, 15.9% Catholic and 6.8% other christian.

quote:

Many fans at Ibrox are Jewish........ should they be expected to respect the passing of the Pope ?

I'm sure that most Jews would respect the minute's silence for the passing of the Pope, particularly as this Pope has unusually active (for a Pope) in improving the relationship between Judaism and Christianity.

Regards
Steve M

The point is between all this pendantic pointless bickering is that Celtic is essentially a Catholic club and a great Pope will only die once in it's history, if folk in Scotland or England or anywhere else don't like being quiet for a minute it's hard bloody luck, or maybe we should employ our Maggies good old Chilean matey's Junta football stadium methods to maintain respect through fear of death by random machine gunning?


Fritz Von Long live the Pope

Steve

I really do think that you and I are in a minority here.

The overall consensus is that offending religious groups is no big deal. My only retort is that they have no sense of decency.

Allowing chanting and making a racket that deliberately offends thousands of people is plain bloody obnoxious. If you take no steps to contain it, it will continue unabated.

It just shows what a warped sense of values prevail.

Regards

Mick

I want you on the next train to Greenock Mr Parry, pack your bags at once, and that's an odour.

Fritz Von Impatience looming

Fritz

You are barking mad.

Mick

Mick

I agree, he's been eating the Pedigree Chum again

Welcome to the world Donald James Kennedy son of British Social Democrat leader & His wife who was born some hours ago. Having voted for George in my last GE stint, I trust his future is assured in a fairer more Democratic future €uropean orientated Britain, innit.

Fritz Von Go easy on the sherbert tonight, Gordon nearly feel on his arse last night for all the world to see

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:
Welcome to the world Donald James Kennedy son of British Social Democrat leader & His wife who was born some hours ago. Having voted for George in my last GE stint, I trust his future is assured in a fairer more Democratic future €uropean orientated Britain, innit.

Fritz Von Go easy on the sherbert tonight, Gordon nearly feel on his arse last night for all the world to see

Pish: Sen'or Parry ! Compliments and arse licking will get you nowhere, I require you to contact mr Branston, book a third class ticket asap, and get your bottom to Scotland and further your points of order in person. Mr Bragg is also Barking Mad, and I appreciate your concern, but a man of your quality and Civil mindedness should put Duty fist, not personal friendships and yobbishness, innit.

Fritz Von Gluepot regulars become unstuck too you know !!!

Place your bets now:

Who'll be Pope?

I don't think the law should be involved, and I certainly hold no brief for the catholic church, or any other for that matter (I'm atheist), but this behaviour is sickenening and completely disrespectful of other people's values and beliefs. I am genuinely surprised that people on this forum support and defend this shameful behaviour.

quote:

Originally posted by Jez Quigley:
I am genuinely surprised that people on this forum support and defend this shameful behaviour.

Supporting someone's right to choose not to observe a moment of silence isn't the same as endorsing the manner in which they choose to express their disapproval. This is the same mistake many "pro-life" people make - assuming that pro-choice = pro-abortion.

Imposing a minute of silent respect for the Pope on a sports crowd makes about as much sense as painting your face, getting roaring drunk, then cheering "goooooOOOO GOD!" at Sunday mass. There's a time and a place for everything. I think that's spelled out in Ecclesiastes.

quote:

Originally posted by jayd:
Place your bets now:

Who'll be Pope?

We should have Pope Idol with Simon Cowell putting the Cardinals through their paces. 'You were just crap at swinging that incense, mate'

And can we have a minutes booing for the catholic church for a thousand years of torture, child abuse and the aids epidemic in South America, now please?

I wont prosecute Mick if he stays silent.

Stephen

Great to see shameless advertising innit, also good to see that Our Mick hasen't managed to get a train ticket up norf yet cos the lines have the wrong kind of leaves on them !

http://www.seanf.de/fritz.jpg I personally think he should ride his raleigh chopper up there fully armed with the Magna Carter, and a copy of 'The Job".

Fritz Von Barking up the right tree

After the shamefull display in Milan last night by the referee and officials in stopping all those wonderfull Catholic fans, obviously still grieving for their beloved pontiff, letting off a few bangers and chanting religious banter is hardly a crime now is it ?
A spokesperson for the Scouse Army who'll arrive in Turin today was quoted as saying "We'll turn the other cheek, we know these people are responsible for Ken Bigley's demise, but as Scousers we'll remain true to our nature ?"

Fritz Von No Comment

I'm sorry if this has been covered before (the thread was long), but I have to ask what the standards for free speech and "hate crimes" are in the UK. Surely disrespecting another person - even if based upon his religion - is not a "hate crime" in the UK, is it? Do you not have the right to say whatever you want even if (particularly if) it is intended to be offensive?

Here in the states (and I have no idea how it works in the UK), we protect the right to say just about anything you want - even if what you are saying is deeply offensive. In fact, as it is often said here, this protection is particularly important precisely because what one says is offensive. After all, popular sentiment is not in need of constitutional protection. It is the unpopular speech that we need to protect the most.

Could somebody with a technical view of the British legal system set me straight on the limits of protection for speech there.

Judd

Justin me old Sptic, A well formulated question there, and I trust somebody can answer it from UK who knows what they're talking about ? I suspect Our Deane has a professional Colonial view, but that's not what you're after I tally ?


Could have Dubya's IPOD selection really have been something else I wonder ?


I'm a Believer

Some Girls won't

Wake me up before you gog go

etc, etc,


Fritz Von I didn't know that N.Ireland (Like Germany) enjoys the ultimate Democratic Luxury of Proportional Representation (Did You ?) , All of those 'Theorists' against, and who have never experienced it, and in reality don't know what the fuck they're talking about, should look closer, innit.

O please do me a favour. This is not about freedom of speech, it's about common courtesy and decency.