Long wait is over.....

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Many posts on this Forum these days are tending to loose a sense of proportion, and hyperbole is all too often the means used to make a point. The value of the post is devalued in proportion to the size of the exaggeration.

quote:

Originally posted by "Anon":
OMG[oodness]!

This has to be heard to be believed! Yes I know it is Hifi, but in this case the sound alone has its excitement!! Not often do I see the value of Hifi aspects, but in this case it has its use ...

..... I never expected to hear this level of quality in replay, and indeed never have before.

I know George, I know.

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
So is a pre amp, but relieving the power amp of its duties by using a FC,HC or SC makes a massive difference.

Possibly more realistic might be ... using a FC, HC or SC makes an audible and, for me, significant difference.

The question of how much one is prepared to pay for incremental improvements will vary according to individual circumstances, and personal taste.

Many posts on this Forum these days are tending to loose a sense of proportion, and hyperbole is all too often the means used to make a point. The value of the post is devalued in proportion to the size of the exaggeration.

ATB from George

George,

I like to think about Upgrades/SQ Differences in two ways.

1) it is immediately clear in the first few seconds that the SQ has changed for better or worse, e.g. adding the 555PS to the HDX, or listening to 252/300/SL2s vs 102/180/Allaes.

2) Over time, and extended listening seshes, one becomes aware of some slighter, particular improvements. E.g. Powerline, HC.

3) It should sound better because everyone says so and it was more expensive. So I convince myself it does. E.g. Hiline

Often it seems like tend people fall into camp #1. Any claims of FLAC level 5 "showing the door to" level 9 elicits mandatory rolley eye smiley from me.

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Meredith:

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Many posts on this Forum these days are tending to loose a sense of proportion, and hyperbole is all too often the means used to make a point. The value of the post is devalued in proportion to the size of the exaggeration.

quote:

Originally posted by "Anon":
OMG[oodness]!

This has to be heard to be believed! Yes I know it is Hifi, but in this case the sound alone has its excitement!! Not often do I see the value of Hifi aspects, but in this case it has its use ...

..... I never expected to hear this level of quality in replay, and indeed never have before.

I know George, I know.

Sorry to requote the whole post but we are over the page!

Sometimes the difference brought by a small expenditure is significant! What I wrote about was the improvement brought by less than £20, so I can get a bit excited for once can't I? I agree that regulated Power Supplies are good value ...

I thanks you for leaving my second comment as "Anon!" but no need. I rarely take offense these days. Older, wiser, the bruises have all healed! And I never could see any offense in your correcting of me on very rare occasions. I took it as the action of an older and wiser brother!

Anyway I have just watched the film My Fair Lady! This is a lovely entertainment! And all the better for having the wisdom of Shaw behind it. I also enjoy the old film Pygmalion, which is much closer to the original play!

ATB from George

The Weiss arrived this morning. It is still burnning in. Fresh out of box, the sound was quite boring. Each note has a nice weight to it, but the sound was slow. I put it aside for burning in and continue to listen to the Naim Dac.

Will the Weiss sound change overtime with more burn in?

quote:

Originally posted by kent:
The Weiss arrived this morning. It is still burnning in. Fresh out of box, the sound was quite boring. Each note has a nice weight to it, but the sound was slow. I put it aside for burning in and continue to listen to the Naim Dac.

Will the Weiss sound change overtime with more burn in?

You don't say anything about how the Weiss DAC2 is configured or in what system it is used, how it's wired etc.?

Here is my setup
Monkey media playing Wav files
firewire
Weiss
282/HC2/250.2
NACA5
DIY Usher speakers

Allen,
Could you advise how was the sound change during the burn in?

quote:

DIY Usher speakers

Kent, you have built some Usher clone???

Ama,

They are not a clone, but DIY speakers using usher drivers. Dennis Murphy is the designer.

Allen,

My experience is quite the opposite from yours. They sound quite nice fresh out of box. The voices and bass carry great depth and weight. But I am still having a hard time getting involved with music. I find myself losing interests half way through a song. I shall give it more time.

The Naim Dac seems to come along pretty well after feeding it with continue signal for a couple days.

quote:

Allen,

My experience is quite the opposite from yours. They sound quite nice fresh out of box. The voices and bass carry great depth and weight. But I am still having a hard time getting involved with music. I find myself losing interests half way through a song. I shall give it more time.

This was refering to Weiss Dac2 burn in process.

quote:

Originally posted by kent:



This was refering to Weiss Dac2 burn in process.

Shouldn't be much burn in, if you have everything set up OK it shoud sound fine. I took mine to compare with the Naim DAC last week and they were both enjoyable. The Naim was brighter and livelier the Weiss was slightly smoother and richer, both were very detailed and we are talking shades here not large differences.

I'll be keeping the Weiss.

Joe

Joe,

May I ask how was the Naim Dac connected to the computer?

Tonight, the Weiss settle down more so I compare it to the Naim Dac. I found myself could not reliably choose one over the other. The Naim dac does has more synergy with the rest of my Naim kits. The sound is more solid, energitic and sure footed. The weiss on the other hand sound bigger and with more ambient information. When music get busy, the sound was easier to listen to. Like you said, the diferrences are small.

However, I found that I consistantly prefer the empirical Audio USB convertor over the Weiss built in Firewire cnvertor. The EA is more focus and the weiss is a bit diffussed and hollow sounding by comparison. With EA, the weiss and Naim dac are almost identical. It is pretty crazy that the convertor imposed more to the sound than dac itself.....

I am looking forward to compare these two dac with Skip's CDS2 this Friday.

quote:

Originally posted by kent:
Joe,

May I ask how was the Naim Dac connected to the computer?

Tonight, the Weiss settle down more so I compare it to the Naim Dac. I found myself could not reliably choose one over the other. The Naim dac does has more synergy with the rest of my Naim kits. The sound is more solid, energitic and sure footed. The weiss on the other hand sound bigger and with more ambient information. When music get busy, the sound was easier to listen to. Like you said, the diferrences are small.

However, I found that I consistantly prefer the empirical Audio USB convertor over the Weiss built in Firewire cnvertor. The EA is more focus and the weiss is a bit diffussed and hollow sounding by comparison. With EA, the weiss and Naim dac are almost identical. It is pretty crazy that the convertor imposed more to the sound than dac itself.....

I am looking forward to compare these two dac with Skip's CDS2 this Friday.

Hi Kent,

The computers were iMac and MacBook, the Naim DAC was connected using optical because the host of the demo has a very long run of cable. We tried a HiFace but we didn't have a long run of coax cable that we had any faith in, it did not sound as good as the optical over that distance. On other occasions I have preferred the HiFace over optical but using much shorter cables.

The Weiss I have tried with optical, HiFace and Firewire - the best result to me was Firewire, very closely followed by the HiFace then optical.

The differences between the DACs as mentioned were small, we enjoyed whatever we played. It was a Naim system so should, I guess, have favoured the Naim DAC. It's interesting that you noted a similar aspect. When the music got busy or loud, I also found the Weiss slightly easier on the ear. In the end, that was about the only minor criticism of either. The rest of the time was spent discussing the merits of recordings used.

Joe

Kent. XP or Vista/7. Regardless, you're still listening through the windows mixer. It will limit your results. You need to get to a WASAPI exclusive, ASIO or Kernel streaming output and I'd try foobar as the player even though it doesn't like a wav library. Just right click on a selection in you music folder and open with Foobar for quick access. If you get the chance, see if you can borrow an HDX to try as source at some point. Hopefully the CDX2 you'll listen to also has a DIG out so you have a 2nd source to compare to.

I will have to look into the WASAPI. Will it work with Monkey Media?

I tried Foobar, Jriver with Asio, and Itune on a borrowed Macbook before I settle on Monkey Media. The MM was chosen for its excellent user interface as the differences were small among media player.

I am comparing the Dacs with CDS2, which has no dig output.

I also like the way MM handles wav. Very nice. If you can't find a plugin than you need in the MM library, you can try a winamp plugin. They often work. I'm not yet fully Vista/7 versed but I understand you want the excusive option with WASAPI. I'll get there with 7 at some point as it's a very nice interface.

Guys,
In case you wonder, here are the short version of the results.

In the order of preference.

1) Naim Dac/XPS/Empirical Audio USB convertor
2) Naim CDS2
3) Audio Note/Empirical Audio USB convertor
4) Naim Dac/Empirical Audio USB convertor
4) Weiss Dac2/Empirical Audio USB convertor
5) Weiss Dac2 through firewire

Please let me know if you want more details.

Interesting, my DAC 2 sounds better than my CDS3 did. Are you using any music server software Kent?

Joe

Kent

Strange.

I found the Naim DAC standalone - with hiFace and Amarra Mini significantly ahead of my CDS2.

As Joe suggests perhaps the music server software is key at this level?

Best Wishes

Richard

I sold my CDS2 after comparing it with a Weiss DACII, not my findings at all.

Could have to do with vintage of CDX2 as there are now 3 versions and system or simply preference etc. There is also no consensus of CDX2 vs CDS2 so there's much to consider. What it comes down to is that all should do this for themselves. I personally wouldn't have been prepared to forgo a better CDP until I heard the Naim HDX/DAC/PS combo but again that's me and those interested should try for themselves.

Yes indeed, so many variables. Mind you, once you get the sonics where you are used to having them, slotting discs into a player suddenly feels like such a faff.

It's one of those things you would struggle to invent the other way round. Take away a fully controllable library and swap it for one disc at a time.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by kent:
The Weiss arrived this morning. It is still burnning in. Fresh out of box, the sound was quite boring. Each note has a nice weight to it, but the sound was slow. I put it aside for burning in and continue to listen to the Naim Dac.

Will the Weiss sound change overtime with more burn in?

Come on..... out of the box it should sound @ 95% of what it will after "burn in". If it is boring now, it will always be boring. Or you are exaggerating ALOT about how it sounds now. Or you will convince yourself you like it... Or you will simply get accustomed to a sound that is different.

All i know is that it is not going to change DRASTICALLY after running for a few days.

I aways LOVE that burn in knows exactly where and when to stop getting better. If I burn in my CD5i for 57 years will it be a 555?

Why would Naim bother listening to every unit before it leaves the plant? How would they know if it sounded correct?

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bibb:
Yes indeed, so many variables. Mind you, once you get the sonics where you are used to having them, slotting discs into a player suddenly feels like such a faff.

It's one of those things you would struggle to invent the other way round. Take away a fully controllable library and swap it for one disc at a time.

Joe

Testify! I could never go back to physical media now.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

Originally posted by kent:
The Weiss arrived this morning. It is still burnning in. Fresh out of box, the sound was quite boring. Each note has a nice weight to it, but the sound was slow. I put it aside for burning in and continue to listen to the Naim Dac.

Will the Weiss sound change overtime with more burn in?

Come on..... out of the box it should sound @ 95% of what it will after "burn in". If it is boring now, it will always be boring. Or you are exaggerating ALOT about how it sounds now. Or you will convince yourself you like it... Or you will simply get accustomed to a sound that is different.

All i know is that it is not going to change DRASTICALLY after running for a few days.

I aways LOVE that burn in knows exactly where and when to stop getting better. If I burn in my CD5i for 57 years will it be a 555?

Why would Naim bother listening to every unit before it leaves the plant? How would they know if it sounded correct?

How about quit b_tching and look at the results?
The Weiss was least preferable.

Guys,

We did the comparison with CDS2 in Skip's system. I am guessing itune was used to play the digital files.

May be Skip can chime in to give more detail about the setup.