PS Audio P500 - First Impressions

Posted by: David Sutton on 18 December 2003

Hi Everyone,

I have finally received and installed a PS Audio P 500 regenerator in my system. This is a relatively new component in the range from PS Audio. There have been comments in the past regarding the P300 that it has replaced. The new unit has a number of significant differences over its predecessors.

As I understand it, a regenerator is a type of power amplifier that produces a steady signal (at say 50Hz) with an amplitude that reflects the required voltage (say 240V). This is an alternate to the filters that are available on the market to try and sort out mains problems, together with the dedicated spurs etc.

The unit, in its UK setup, features three regenerated supplies for source components, and a separate filtered outlet (using their Ultimate Outlet technology) for power amps or other larger current demands.

The regenerated supplies feature up to 500 Watts of power delivery with a number of other options for tweaking. Firstly, the signal that the unit produces can be varied from a pure sine wave. PS Audio have developed MultiWave II that modifies the shape of the wave form to suit or enhance the performance of particular equipment. There are a number of wave form options, but as an example, MultiWave 1 takes a single 60Hz sine wave, and adds a small amount of 3rd harmonic sine waves to form a single partial square wave. PS Adio say this improves the ability of the audio equipment to charge capacitors by extending the time available to "top off" the capacitors voltage. There are 4 MultiWaves, along with a Tube Wave (for valve equipment), a pure sine wave, and AutoWave. This last setting automatically selects different MultiWaves, depending on the dynamics of the power load. This selection is made continuously as the power factor changes.

MultiWave is all well and good for my SuperCap and XPS. However, the motor on the LP 12 did not like it at all but was superb with the Sine setting.

The unit allows for modifications in the Voltage from 220V to 250 V. This is a very interesting tweak to play with and I have not yet arrived at a final prefered setting as the best voltage seems to vary depending on the type of music.

It is also possible to modify the frequency from 50Hz up to 120Hz, allowing the Armageddon to play 45 rpm records (not that I have any).

The use of the unit has so far been one of those great experiences of reaching for more and more old favourites to explore this units capabilities. It ahs certainly scored in terms of quieting down the transformers in the SuperCap and XPS. But the equipment now produces music in a beguiling way that I had not previously heard. New information is there. Musical notes stop and start in a distinct manner. Low level background sounds are more discrete. Dynamic range is stupendous.

In the past, I have fitted a dedicated spur, a dedicated ring main and tried a Russ Andrews SuperPurifier. None of these managed to sort out the problems with mains borne garbage that we suffer from here. However, the differences with this new solution are quite dramatic.

Now the bad news. In UK, the PS Audio distributor is Ultimate Sonics. They are astoundingly unhelpful. In the USA, a UK configured P 500 (230V with UK style sockets and mains lead) costs US$2499. In UK its GBP2400. With the current exchange rates the prices are very naughty. A US configured P500 is US$1999 on the web. My order, through Audio Outlet, has taken nearly three months to sort out. They sent a European configured unit first time around, then got stuck with production issues at PS Audio.

However, the wait was worth it. The transformers are silent and the music is brilliant. I will report further went I can advise more on the tweaks to wave form, frequency and Voltage.

Seasons greetings to all!

David
Posted on: 18 December 2003 by Manu
I'll take geat care of this Multiwave think, Power supplies are made for sine waves, the conduction time will be too long. I'm not sure diodes and rectifiers will like it.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Posted on: 18 December 2003 by JohanR
Stuff like this has been made for computers for years. I just checked the prices in a computer catalog, a 1000 VA box costs roughly 5500:- SEK, thats 600 Euro or £ 420, as you don't have to pay the extra "It's HiFi" bonus.

JohanR
Posted on: 19 December 2003 by ken c
david: do ps audio quote an uotput impedance for the P500? if so, i'd be interested to know what this is...

enjoy

ken
Posted on: 19 December 2003 by David Sutton
Thanks for the responses.

Johan; does this mean you have tried a lower cost solution, or are you just not sure about the PS Audio option?

ken; I am sorry but I have not seen an impedance quoted for the output, but I will keep searching.

Anyway; notwithstanding any of the comments, my system is sounding great!! That is good news.
Posted on: 19 December 2003 by Mark Dunn
Hi David:

Halle - bloody - lujah! A convert!

I've had a PS 600 for the past 3 years and have been touting it as an excellent piece of kit. As long as your equipment doesn't ask for more power than it can deliver, it'll supply 'pure' power right up to its rated output, and then gracefully shuts down *very quickly*. For mid-range systems it terrific.

You'll find that it takes about 4 weeks to burn in, as essentially it's just a big ol' power amp.

It's a real bummer that the LP12 (which I have also) means we have to keep it on the 50Hz sinewave setting, but removing the LP12 from the PS Audio is really bad karma after you've got used to it. I tried to convince Paul at PS Audio to design a Power Plant specifically for synchronous motors, with the ability to change the voltage to each winding independently and alter the phase too, - but apparently it's uneconomical. Bummer.

Also, it's still very much worthwhile getting a separate ground for your system as the PS Audio does nothing to the ground arrangement (regulatory requirement).

Johan: The computer supplies you speak of do not do the same job as the PS Audio. I've tried 'em and they're abysmal.

Manu: I checked with Naim before I ordered my Power Plant and they said it's OK.

Ken: I'm not sure *exactly* what the output impedance is, but here in the States it's been measured to be about one tenth of the impedance from a well wired regular power socket.

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn
Posted on: 19 December 2003 by David Sutton
Thanks Mark.

One interesting aspect of the P500 is that it monitors power consumption of the regenerated supply. My Supercap and XPS seem to work on a steady 46 Watts, almost irrespective of their use. On start up of the CDX, the power momentarily zooms to 58 Watts. That consumption seems to be slightly higher than the usual amount that is claimed for leaving your kit powered up.

Anyway, the P500 is continuing to add significant quality to my system.
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by ken c
Ken: I'm not sure *exactly* what the output impedance is, but here in the States it's been measured to be about one tenth of the impedance from a well wired regular power socket.

mark, many thanks. 10% of normal mains source impedance sounds very low, and therefore, we presume, "a good thing"...

enjoy

ken
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by Paul Ranson
I'm forced to wonder how such a regenerator reacts to mains optimisations....

Paul
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by ken c
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Ranson:
I'm forced to wonder how such a regenerator reacts to mains optimisations....

Paul


i presume these things are (should be?) fairly insensitive to mains fed into them as they clean it up. i presume you dont even need a spur -- an ordinary ring should do just as well.

but, ah, i wonder how it "sees" and reacts to mains source impedance, which i was reading somewhere is something like:

0.25 + j 0.23

i.e. the resistance of 0.25 ohms and inductive impedance of 0.23 ohms.

its a bit hard to really do justice to these (important) issues without a sound (sorry!) theoretical base. a lot of what i have read on the subject lately is total dross...

enjoy

ken
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by Andrew L. Weekes
quote:
Ken: I'm not sure *exactly* what the output impedance is, but here in the States it's been measured to be about one tenth of the impedance from a well wired regular power socket.



But here in the UK there's no output device capable of handling the 220V mains, so it adds a mains transformer at the output to step up the voltage from 110-220. Based on a 2:1 transformer, the impedance scales with the square of the turns ratio, so UK PS units are around 4 times worse, in terms of mains impedance, than US ones.

Andy.
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by Mark Dunn
Hi all:

Paul Ranson wrote:

>I'm forced to wonder how such a regenerator reacts to mains optimisations...<

I have a single dedicated spur and there is definitiely a difference when the Power Plant is run off it, as opposed to the regular ring main. I look at the the Power Plant as providing a large quantitative improvement in the quality of the power, - an improvement which is dependent upon the the initial quality of the mains it's fed.

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by NaimDropper
If you REALLY want to feed your LP12 motor what it wants...
I feed mine with a split phase 50Hz source of my own design. The signal goes into a 42/110 and then through transformers to step the voltage up appropriately.
I use the "volume" control to get the table turning then I turn it down until there is just enough to keep it turning plus a bit more.
Interesting to hear what the music sounds like with more and less voltage -- clearly the motor vibrations have an impact on the music.
I even burnt a CD at 50 and 60Hz and sometimes play it through a battery operated CD player so the waveform generator and CDP won't trash the mains. Other frequencies are possible for 45 RPM, etc. but I don't have any application for that.
Anybody want to try it? I'll send them a CD and tranformer specs. Specify 50 or 60Hz.
Can't comment on the PS Audio except it seems outrageously expensive for a UPS. And intentionally distoring the waveform to improve conduction angles in linear power supplies is a great idea if the design of the linear power supplies included that in the requirements.
Otherwise you are adding noise you don't need to an already more than adequate power supply.
Just my opinion and conjecture, never used one.
David
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by Paul Ranson
If anybody wants to play with the 42/110/transformer approach then I have a small PC application that generates split phase variable frequency signals out of your sound card. You get to play with frequency and phase.

http://www.kilmory.demon.co.uk/bin/TTWaveform1001.zip

Feel free. Email for any clarification.

Paul
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by Paul Ranson
Now I'm wondering what would happen if you fed a regenerator from a regenerator.

Paul
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by NaimDropper
Cool!
I like it.
David
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by David Sutton
I noticed that IsoTek have also produced a regenerator. Its called the Powerstation and retails at GBP2800. However, I dont know if its as clever as the P500. It is certainly alot more expensive.
Posted on: 23 December 2003 by Rich Jerskey
any of you PS Audio fans care to advise me on this?

I want to connect the following NAIM components to a P500 would it be feasible or not based on your experience/knowledge?

2 X 250 power amps
supercap power supply
hi-cap power supply
XPS power supply

Thanks in advance.

Rich
Posted on: 23 December 2003 by Mark Dunn
Hi Rich:

Two 250s with all the other gubbins maybe a bit much for a P500, although I'm sire the P1000 would handle it all OK. You're best bet is to got to the PS Audio web forum and ask the question there. Paul McGowan, their head honcho, is always very helpful (and honest).

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn
Posted on: 23 December 2003 by Rich Jerskey
Thanks Mark. I posted the question there now.

Rich
Posted on: 23 December 2003 by jpk73
When I tried my 135s with the PS Audio (I think it was the 600) it got worse. I guess you better run your 250s driectly without any power regenerator...

- Jun
Posted on: 23 December 2003 by David Sutton
Rich,
The US configuration of the P500 has four outlets of regenerated AC (for your source items and preamp) together with two Ultimate Outlet supplies for your two NAP 250s. As your power amps are not drawing on the 500W regenerated supply, I believe you should be OK. Please note that the P500 is not configured the same as the P300 or P600, which are both struggling when it comes to delivering current.

As Mark says, Paul is very helpful and worth a call.

Good luck

David
Posted on: 23 December 2003 by Rich Jerskey
Thanks for your input guys. David, seems like it (P500) might work o.k. based on what I've been able to gather from reading about the set-up (it is totally different than the P600 as far as having dedicated Ultimate outlets which could serve the power amps). Anyway, I'm still waiting for a reply to my inquiry to the experts at PS. I'll let you know what they say and how I decide to proceed. Seems like a cleaner and more convenient way to get away from dirty mains effects.

Cheers,


Rich
Posted on: 23 December 2003 by Stevea
quote:

Can't comment on the PS Audio except it seems outrageously expensive for a UPS.



From what I have read and been told it is actually an amplifier that instead of producing a musical signal as its output produces a sign wave (or modified version of).

I tried one of their ultimate outlets and it did nothing, either +ve or -ve, to my system but after reading this thread may take up the offer to try the 500. Can't really judge anything without giving it a try!

Steve
Posted on: 19 January 2004 by Peter Stockwell
So any more comments on living with a P500 (not a P600, it's way to big and heavy for real people) ?

Specifically, what I'd like to know is it a better add on to a system with a CDX than an XPS ?

Peter
Posted on: 19 January 2004 by Rich Jerskey
Peter,

I expect to get my P500 within a few days. I will be putting my CDS2, Supercap2, XPS, and Hi-Cap into the regen outputs and the two 250's in the UO's. It'll probably be a few weeks before it's burned in optimally but I'll post any interesting observations along the way.

Rich