Mugabe?

I certainly think Mandella's words would be less easy for Mugabe to dismiss than those of the likes of Gordon Brown. It is very easy for the likes of Mugabe to try to portray Britain and other former colonial powers as having no motive other than to interfear in their former domains. A man who (whether rightly or not) is widely seen as the liberator of the South African black majority might well have more success. It would be particularly embarassing for Mugabe to be condemned by Mandella, as his supporters frequently compare him to Mandella.

I certainly don't think Tsvangirai has done himself any favours by seeking refuge in a western embassy, especially the Dutch embassy, as the Dutch would be considered by many to have been one of the largest colonial powers alongside Britain and France. It surely makes it easier for ZPF supporters to argue that the MDC is little more than a front that the former colonial powers are using to increase their influence in the region.

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
I dont know why some one does not just slot the bastard.
He has got away with to much for far to long IMO.

No oil in Zimbabwe...

Maybe the MDC should announce they've discovered huge oil reserves?!
I was amazed Mugabe attended the United Nations food summit in Rome recently;
why wasn't he arrested?

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
I dont know why some one does not just slot the bastard.
He has got away with to much for far to long IMO.

I've asked a few of my Zim friends, both black and white, about this and they all say that it just isn't the Zim/southern African way. Whatever will be will be, I suppose.
And we've seen what can happen when a tribal leader is taken out.... bloody massacre.

Tony

DEar All,

In this world of political correctness we have been rewarded by our guilt.

So we have Political Dictators who put former colonial powers to shame by their totally inhumane conduct on their own peoples while using the COLONIAL FACIST GUYS WERE WORSE.

So we have little support from African nations when we comment unfavourably on an African Govt even thought that Govt is committing Genocide and is killing more people than the former colonialists ever did.

The African nations need to act in a more grown up manner and police their own continents Govts.

It seems amusing that Africa takes our generosity with regards to help funds and food, but does not listen to our advice on how they are treating their own populations.

IMHO Africa is a failed and doomed continent and as a result millions will die.

While we sit back and go

A: Wasnt like that when we ruled the country

B: We must let them adapt to change and proceed at their own pace, otherwise we may offend them with our Colonialist opinions.

regards a a former colonialist Kenya and HongKong.

David

Davo,

I do find the sleazy ways of these "leaders" more than a little troubling. Why did we not help the right guys getting into power I wonder?

As for the view that Africa is a doomed continent I feel that the Catholic church has done more to promote the spread of AIDS by condeming the use of condoms that anyone else.

Sorry I drifted off the topic for a moment there.

Didn't anyone spot the Hilter mussy as a bit of a clue to his character?

Jono

Jono

And in the meantime China is wading in to Africa for its next reservoir of cheap, willing labour and corruptible governments.

Tony

Do you think any African countries will win medals at the Olympics?

Let me see you want arms?

We Gottem?

You got minerals

You got slave labour like we used to have.

We treat you better than those Imperialist Capitalist whities.

We Gotta Deal?

Oh Yeah we keep you in power too.

Great trading with you guys!

regards a cynic.

Still many will be sharing in the Olympic Idyll in a country that promotes the Olympic Philosophy.

Any contribution from me on the topic of Mugabe would clearly violate forum rules & etiquette.

Oh Come On Now This Is A Forum For Adult Discussion.

Just Refrain From Using Offensive Language

regards Hard to offend

especially when such language is directed to a person so deserving.

quote:

Originally posted by DAVOhorn:
Oh Come On Now This Is A Forum For Adult Discussion.

Just Refrain From Using Offensive Language

regards Hard to offend

especially when such language is directed to a person so deserving.

I will tell you tomorrow evening at Lontano's farewell dinner. At my age I will have to watch my blood preasure so.

Well Nelson Mandela said it, but my goodness he did not waste a lot of time doing so!

George

thought mandela didnt go far enough myself.
coming round to munches solution just send the SAS boys in to eliminate him.......NOW !

Much as I instinctively like that idea, I can't help thinking that it would only make Mugabe a martyer.

maybe but what the hell have the people of zimbabwe got to lose ?

quote:

Originally posted by scottyhammer:
maybe but what the hell have the people of zimbabwe got to lose ?

Even more lives in the aftermath.

Tony

quote:

Originally posted by Tony Lockhart:

quote:

Originally posted by scottyhammer:
maybe but what the hell have the people of zimbabwe got to lose ?

Even more lives in the aftermath.

Tony

For an example see Iraq. The replacement must be a fine upstanding fellow, and I mean that without an irony.

Jono

Or Rwanda....



Tony

Why are various African nations in a mess;
isn't it largely due to the history of colonisation?
The end of this created 'new' countries causing ethnic/religious tensions,
along with a power vacuum.

Zimbabwe is a former British colony so I think we have a moral duty to help.
Iraq is an example both of the effects colonisation,
& the risks of making things worse when we try to 'help'.

quote:

Originally posted by 555:

Why are various African nations in a mess;
isn't it largely due to the history of colonisation?

555, your emoticon brings to mind something an old teacher of mine said that has remained with me ever since: It's not the shit, it's the fan.

Anyway, I agree with your assessment regarding the aftermath of imperialism. Those who wonder why Africa is generally in such bad shape would also do well to consider that the Caucasian/Western/European/American powers have never been eager to help out that much when it comes to people with darker skin and different culture, especially if there are no resources to plunder.

Fred

Nelson Mandela, South Africa, Souhern African Nations in general and the United Nations (as usual) have absolutely nothing to be proud of in relation to Zimbabwe and Mugabe. a slap on the wrist would have been more meaningful.

Southern African States have stated time and time time again, that an "African" solution is needed in Zimbabwe. I am disappointed with their current perception of success.

Cheers

Don

Don

quote:

Southern African States have stated time and time time again, that an "African" solution is needed in Zimbabwe. I am disappointed with their current perception of success.

I agree 100% with you (watch out for the flying pigs!).

Cheers

Jim

Though the allocation of state borders that resulted from Colonialism certainly has left a big problem for some countries in Africa and elsewhere, it is the inherent racism of the peoples of some of these countries which is the problem in so many cases, and blaming the old Colonial Powers for today's problems is hypocritical.

It is interesting that many countries outside Africa have managed this transition to self-determination very well indeed, and the success of India might be seen as exemplary of how to move forward after a period of Colonial Governemnt. Why has this not been emulated in so many cases in Africa? I have no answer to that.

But we live in times where it is fashionable for people to blame others rather than attempt to find solutions off their own initiative. In this case others who died generations ago are responsible for the wrong allocation of the said borders. It is convenient to blame the present generation of people in the Ex-colonial powers, and pretend that they want to "re-colonise" and so on, when the reality is that many of these Ex-colonies depend, even generations after they were given self-determination, on the Aid of the former Colonial Masters in spite of have been left with decent infrastructures of agriculture, education, railways and so forth. In far too many cases these have been ruined by an inability at the governmental level to manage even the most basic economic and state functions once independence has been gained. Mugabe is the worst current case in charge of an ex-British Colony, but there are other lesser examples.

When are these countries going to do more than hold there hands out for unending aid, while still blaming their old Colonists for problems that are really caused by their own racism and corruption? This in spite of the wish of the current generation of people in the old Colonial Powers to help. Often this help is then called a form of neo-colonialism! I am not saying all Aid is perfect, but the street does seem to run one way only.

You cannot help some people, and after fifty or so years they should have matured enough to work out ways forward that do not involve genocide and other demonstrations of a lack of decent human values. That this lack of values is endemic in Africa is shown by the lack of action to help root out the problem by their fellow African counties' governemts.

I doubt if there is anything to be done to help these people in reality. It will merely be scandered in another generation of ultra-corrupt, self -serving dictatorships.

George

innocent people are gonna die thats a fact wether mugabe is in power or not...so get rid of him sooner rather than later.