How to get off a speeding ticket

quote:

Originally posted by GuyPerry:
Ban all cars without ABS and pedestrian crash ratings below 4*, that could save lives.

that's a nice theory Guy but unfortunately most people are under the mistaken belief that ABS lets them stop quicker. Swerving around an obstacle never enters their mind.

quote:

2.5 metres of reation time (1 second) if you travel at 35 intead of 30.

13 metres of reaction time per second if you travel at 30mph and are doing something other than watching the road. So while your maniac travelling at 35mph but paying attention has stopped well in advance of the child who ran across the road, your 'perfect' limit abiding motorist has just run it down still going 30mph and not even knowing what he's hit. Road safety is NOT as simple as a number on a pole.

quote:

Would you exercise a little discretion for the sake of one poxy brake light (when both the other brake light and the eye-level brake lights were working) and just tell me to change it the following day?

of course.

I would also excercise discretion re speeding offences as they would be dependant upon time of day, place, driver attitude displayed etc.

Re the comment re the theft of vehicle - how do you know they are not interested? In my area car crime is one of our priorities. Sometimes tho the owner of the vehicles don't help themselves re not fitting security/anti theft devices, and also doing the stupid, stupid, stupid thing of leaving stuff out on open display!

andy c!

John

Thats why I mentioned ABS, to miss, rather than plough into a pedestrian. This is why I never incorporated it into the three cars I've built.

2.5 meters is the 'difference' in thinking/reaction distance between 30 & 35mph (i.e 15.5m-13m). My point was, very little difference, as there a so many more factors.

Plus a heavy dose of sarcasm.

Regards

Guy

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:
Re the comment re the theft of vehicle - how do you know they are not interested? In my area car crime is one of our priorities. Sometimes tho the owner of the vehicles don't help themselves re not fitting security/anti theft devices, and also doing the stupid, stupid, stupid thing of leaving stuff out on open display!

andy c!

<<rant on>>

Well, I don't wish to have a go at the police, but this does not square with my experience one bit. I have had a car stolen, which I reported to the police and received - nothing. Nothing at all, not even a piece of paper. I had to phone up repeatedly to get the crime number to satisfy my insurance company. Ho hum I thought, perhaps just an off day.
Then we got burgled. A frankly very upsetting experience, and the one time in my life when I have truly felt like a victim, despite having once been held up at gunpoint. Two perfectly civil and sympathetic officers came round, walked us through each room, assured us of the non-personal nature of it, and seemed genuinely concerned. After this first visit on the day, and some fingerprint taking the next, I heard nothing. No letter, no acknowledgement, no progress report. Nothing at all. Some £6000 worth of theft (at new prices).

More to the point, I knew who had done it (as did everyone in the street in a similar situation, four of us) in my case it was because the burglar left a very distinctive hat behind. No offer was made to collect this, I had to take it in.
I described to the "receiving officer" that the hat, circumstantial though it may be in court, identified the burglar quite definitively in my mind as a loudmouth kid from the next street called Shane, as I had seen him wearing it not a week earlier.
Said policeman said "Shane?", "That'll be Shane McCoughlin, I didn't know he was out again."

They knew who had done it, I knew who had done it, the whole street knew who had done it, I had provided evidence with - presumably - DNA proof of who had done it, and still I heard nothing further of any description from the police.
Bollocks to that I say, when a camera catches you doing 45 in a 40 zone you hear something bloody quick enough. I once got a camera-fine for driving in a bus lane, into which I, as others, had moved to make way for an AMBULANCE, with siren/lights on. On discovering that no records are kept of routes taken when and so on, I paid this before the fine doubled after the initial fortnight (I actually question the morality/legality of these rising fines, which is what they are, even if they are phrased as discounts for quick settlement).

Next time, of course I shall not get out of the way of a police car/ambulance/fire engine, if it entails crossing into a bus lane, as cameras cannot differentiate. I'd advise others to do likewise. So, let them escape/die/burn then? What a positive development for society that is. Still, so long as the cameras raise enough revenue out of the law abiders, that's alright then.

The sad truth is that in this justice-desert of a country, crime now does pay.

The average fine for driving without insurance I read the other week, is £176, which not one of the fraction of a percent of the criminals who commit the offence that get prosecuted for it will end up paying anyway. £176.
An elderly nun driving a hairdryer-engined supermini near permanently parked in a bank vault would struggle to find insurance for £176 in London.

It is better value to be a criminal, especially because the police are either woefully equipped to cope, or simply couldn't give a toss.

It's not the cars' fault they get stolen, it's not the owners' fault the cars get stolen, it's the fecking theives. Stop blaming the victims.

<<rant off>>

HI Rod,

To answer a couple of your points. (please understand i can pro say I know what I am talking about here too )

1. Generally at the mo police are crap at public relations.
2. Speed cameras don't discriminate - I am not for speed camera's - please tell rod for me, steve... Your example about getting out of they way - did you object to the ticket on those grounds?
3. You need to accept some responsibility for crime prevention and your posessions - its not just up to the police and courts, its up to all of us.
4. Car crime(theft of/from vehicle) is coming back into fashion because the courts don't seem to send em down for this crime, but do for burglary/robbery - figure that one out!
5. Its not fair those that can pay are made to, and those that can't/won't don't. Hence usually for traffic offences they end up serving time i.e. non payment of fine=warrant=arrest=prison. But that don't happen overnight.

You have a concience - or you would not have typed what you did! Next time get out of the way and then complain when you get the ticket - if you don't get anywhere then keep kicking off about it - the central ticket office for the area which you live has the power to recind this ticket in certain circs, and this example is one of those.

regards

andy c!

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:
Next time get out of the way and then complain when you get the ticket - if you don't get anywhere then keep kicking off about it - the central ticket office for the area which you live has the power to recind this ticket in certain circs, and this example is one of those.

doesn't work - just ask this guy. The law's the law. Ridiculous!

quote:

3. You need to accept some responsibility for crime prevention and your posessions - its not just up to the police and courts, its up to all of us

while this may be true it is also an unfortunate indictment of the state of our society. Should I choose to do so, why shouldn't I be able to leave the doors and windows of my house open and my car unlocked with the keys in the ignition and not have to worry about it?

quote:

The average fine for driving without insurance I read the other week, is £176

which explains exactly why there's over a million people driving around uninsured.

quote:

while this may be true it is also an unfortunate indictment of the state of our society. Should I choose to do so, why shouldn't I be able to leave the doors and windows of my house open and my car unlocked with the keys in the ignition and not have to worry about it?

Because you, like me, live in the real world!

Also you chhose an example where the defence didn't work. I know of several occasions where this did work. Your argument is selective when it suits! So is my defence. The guy should appeal if his story is correct - your assuming he is right of course as we know the other side of the facts don't we.

andy c!

quote:

2. Speed cameras don't discriminate - I am not for speed camera's - please tell rod for me, steve...

I've not met Andy but he comes across as one of the majority of really decent coppers. I know a few around here (had beers with them or picked them up in the taxi when they were off-duty) and all of them are against speed cameras.

If you stop and think about it it's easy to see why. The coppers in general do their best to protect the interests of the majority of decent people of this country. The government, otoh, having lent their ears to a vociferous minority of extremists for far too long, wants to make the driving environment as oppressive as possible without pushing their luck too far to the point of being kicked out of office.

The police just want to get on with their jobs and don't to be replaced by robots (licensed to print money.)

Andy,

What do you think of making jaywalking an offence?

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:
Also you chhose an example where the defence didn't work.

as proof that it doesn't always work what would you have me choose?

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:
Because you, like me, live in the real world!

but Andy this is exactly my point - the real world is broken and needs fixing.

Why don't the emergency services use the bus lanes - it would be easier/quicker for a few busses to get out of the way than dozens of cars

quote:

Originally posted by Nigel Cavendish:
Why don't the emergency services use the bus lanes - it would be easier/quicker for a few busses to get out of the way than dozens of cars

My thought exactly.

quote:

as proof that it doesn't always work what would you have me choose?

I would choose the way you want to, and you live with your choice. I'd choose they right way, then kick up an almighty stick if I got prosecuted etc etc.

quote:

but Andy this is exactly my point - the real world is broken and needs fixing.

Who by? Just by the police and courts because some don't want to take responsibilty for themselves and their posessions? We live in a society where some expect things on a plate and when that doesn't happen they take from those who have etc etc.

quote:

Why don't the emergency services use the bus lanes - it would be easier/quicker for a few busses to get out of the way than dozens of cars

Because you are taught when driving to expect overtaking on the right hand side not the left. As such 'undertaking' which is what this is, presents more of a risk. i was taught this as an advanced driver, and have done the over/under taking both ways - far safer to the offside of the vehicle that the nearside.

Interesting enough this is again another thread where folk are riled up re traffic offences, yet don't mention drug crime and violence, which is far more of a danger at the moment. Wonder why that is? perhaps because we steer clear of areas etc where these may be prevelant?

andy c!

>>> 3. You need to accept some responsibility for crime prevention and your posessions - its not just up to the police and courts, its up to all of us.

So the police now advocate vigilanteism? Where did I leave that baseball bat?

quote:

So the police now advocate vigilanteism? Where did I leave that baseball bat?

Nice logical thinking - lets go controversial.

Thats not what I am saying, and you well know it!

Put 10 cars together and which one will get screwed? The one with the satnav/bag/laptop/no alarm/unlocked/other item on display etc.

Which house gets screwed:

The one without an alarm/blind left open/no other security/doors unlocked/windows unlocked. Funnily enogh all the above are common sense in my view, and also will save you money on insurance etc.

Reductionist - shows where your understanding of my comment was?!?

We don't live in a permissive society any more. We live in one where the opportunist thief will strike, usually to feed a drug habit. If you don't want to accept that, leave some nice valuable stuff on show a while and see what happens.

Oh, and while we are at it, is also upto the shops and supermarkets to pull their weight. They are happy to take your money, but have they all got CCTV and other security in place to give you confidence?

The above is a non-exhaustive example, before anyone bites my head off again!

andy c!

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:
Which house gets screwed:

The one without an alarm/blind left open/no other security/doors unlocked/windows unlocked. Funnily enogh all the above are common sense in my view, and also will save you money on insurance etc.

I feel that I have inadvertently let Andy in for excess criticism and singular defence of his profession, so sorry for that, and thanks to him for answering.

I now have a fully monitored alarm system as a result of the aforementioned burglary, it costs me £400 a year. The car that was stolen was probably pinched by a druggie, it wasn't worth much anyway, certainly there was nothing of value on display. None of this, however, explains why in both cases I wasn't afforded a simple letter of acknowledgement or a notice of no further intention to investigate or SOMETHING, anything even, from the public servants whom I fund handsomely to be employed specifically in investigating the crimes perpetrated against me.

And people wonder why we lose faith in the police system. Andy mightn't approve of speed cameras but he is not necessarily representative. The other day I passed a police speed trap with hand-held camera/radar thingummy. Fortunately I was well under the limit, but we the citizens want they the police to catch the rapists, burglars and drug pushers, not to expend OUR resources enforcing artificially reduced speed limits in order to generate revenue from the motorists who can afford it (i.e. the fundamentally otherwise law abiding ones). There were at least three officers, on a bank holiday. Presumably this cost quite a lot in overtime and so on. They were quite definitely there to CATCH people out, not SLOW them down. In any other branch of the law this would be entrapment and an unnacceptable method of going about things, but as I said, when it comes to catching the burglars, the police very really do not seem to give a toss. "Bet you're glad you're insured, sir" was the comment I got. The answer to which was "no, actually" I wished then, and still wish now, that I hadn't had my home violated.

Still at least this thread has told me why the blinking ambulance that cost me £50 to give way to, didn't use the bus lane itself. That's something. (As is the fact that burglars don't like the look of olive Naim stuff as much as we do...)

quote:

Who by? Just by the police and courts because some don't want to take responsibilty for themselves and their posessions? We live in a society where some expect things on a plate and when that doesn't happen they take from those who have etc etc.

I couldn't agree more, we have become a very selfish society with the dogooders removing all dicipline and responsibility.

Its time discipline was put back into society starting with the schools and people started taking resposibility and accepting there are consequencies for their action.


Regards

PB

Wrong thread wunnit :

A bit off the thread and just a small thought:

We,ve recently had a Euro summit at the Celtic Manor in Newport, with the result that policing levels were upped to all time high (An extra 1500 on duty for the week). Policing levels were also drastically increased between Newport and Cardiff Airport - a route I drive daily. Whilst most people I've spoke to do not approve of the increase in speed camera's and their use, almost everyone welcomed the increase in actual police ie "Isn't it refreshing to see some actual visible police presence" and "It makes you feel so much safer" etc.

I believe this was also the case when London policing levels were also increased significantly, as well as the fact that crime in London during this period was drastically reduced while these levels were maintained.

I,d be interested to see the crime statistics for Newport during this recent period.

Regards

Justyn.

NB - Fritz, nice to see you back posting on other threads.

Rod,

No apology needed!

Re you comment re officers on speed enforcement on a bank holiday - are you sure they were police constables and not police staff?

Also, the stretch of road you ere on, is it a bad one?
Have there been crashes on that road that you are aware of?
Was the fact they were there relevant on a bank holiday due to previous trends of bad driving/exceeding the limit etc?
Have the residents (if there are any) complained re breach of the speed limits etc?

re the car crime you mention - did the police say they would be in touch with you? I am actively telling my staff to be honest with the publoc they speak with re what they can expect re crime investigation etc - honesty being the best policy etc. This does not sit well with some, but you need to be realistic about what can actually be achieved re detection of crime v prioritising limited police resources. This is why so many forces have reduced traffic dept's, and increased community officers etc.

If you think this is getting somewhat political, I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions as to who to have a chat to about that.

reductionist, are you going to reply?

andy c!

Unlike yourself I am not free to post at any time. I try to have a quick read when work allows, so sorry for the delay, so don't expect another quick reply.
I can not think of a single positive report on the service received from the police or justice system in the recent past either posted here or experienced by friends and family. Try to report a crime and you are fobbed off by the person at the front desk, too small a crime with no chance of apprehension or punishment. Report that somebody is pissing on your front door hammering it with fists and shouting abuse because they are out of their heads on drink and drugs (this to a house with three scared shitless children in btw), and you are ignored, too busy. Report a group of youths terrorising the neighbourhood smashing windows and attacking cars and nothing is done, too scared?

I apreciate that many are trying to do a good job under difficult cicumstances but patronising with advice about protecting your valuables is patronising!

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:
We don't live in a permissive society any more. We live in one where the opportunist thief will strike, usually to feed a drug habit. If you don't want to accept that, leave some nice valuable stuff on show a while and see what happens.

Let me try to understand this. You are saying that society is lawless and because I do not like this fact (and you seem to imply that I do not like this fact and therefore do not believe it) that I should allow the thieves to steal from me to prove that society is lawless to teach me a lesson so that I then don't expect any crime prevention and will lock my doors and windows?

Seems like a way of taking the blame for increasing crime away from the people paid to reduce crime and place it squarely on the people receiving the criminal activity.

Andy

Thanks

Can't really comment on the road at the Bank Holiday, it was the A61(?) Leeds - Harrogate, I was in Yorkshire for the weekend to attend a wedding, but I don't live anywhere near there. They appeared to be police officers rather than "police staff" although I'm not entirely sure I'd know the difference. Perhaps someone here knows whether the road is a noted blackspot - it certainly would've been easy and tempting to exceed the limit (40) I guess (wide, straight, well-kept good visibility road etc).

The only reason we tolerate the level of unsolved burglary (and the homogenous "car crime") is precisely because it is so high and therefore commonplace. Burglary is an insidious, depressing crime that really can ruin long periods of time for people. We nearly moved from a house we love because of it. It is, apparently, accepted by people that we will all of us get burgled at some time or another.

Doesn't make it any less of a crime - except in the eyes of the perpetrators. What a society we have.

quote:

Let me try to understand this. You are saying that society is lawless and because I do not like this fact (and you seem to imply that I do not like this fact and therefore do not believe it) that I should allow the thieves to steal from me to prove that society is lawless to teach me a lesson so that I then don't expect any crime prevention and will lock my doors and windows?

LOL a good attempt at baiting me, and it worked!

I am meremly saying that most 'petty' crime is opportunist, and to deny the crimminal this opportunity will in most cases put them off. I am also saying that you should be able to leave all your doors open/things on view, but the sad fact is that you cannot.

quote:

Seems like a way of taking the blame for increasing crime away from the people paid to reduce crime and place it squarely on the people receiving the criminal activity.

Would you not agree that crime reduction includes education re prevention? You live in a country where you are responsible for your own actions, and to assume its the police that are at fault here is very naive. I don't actually think you think this - I think you are baiting me for a 'debate'.

You do need to look at the wider picture e.g.
sentencing for some crimes
money to imprison those found guilty
public perception and assistance re prevention and detection

to name but a few.

Funnily enough where I live burglary offences are down by a considerable margin on last year, due to prevention! Prevention re installing burglar alarms and education campaigns re locks and sutting windows etc. Sadly car crime has gone up - wonder why?

andy c!

PS Rod - the road you mention is crap for crashes - poss hence the speed detection, BUT it depends on whether speed was a factor in the crashes - here we go again I think...

Travelling down to Cardiff for the Wales/England game, i pass a Scamera Van out to catch anyone over the limit on their way there. Coming back in the evening, the Scamera Van has switched to the other side to catch folk on the way back. If that's got nothing to do with revenue collecting, i'll eat my hat...

Might also be a deterrant to get folk to slow down a little...