How to get off a speeding ticket

quote:

Originally posted by wellyspyder:
It is only a speed limit, not safe limit, duh. Pass me the Duff beer please.

you obviously do as you're claiming that exceeding it is always dangerous.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Toy:

You're certainly preaching to the converted on that score. I lock my doors, I close my blinds, I lock my car and don't leave valuables on display. However, this doesn't prevent or reduce crime. It just makes it less likely to happen to me.

If everyone did the above, crime would actually increase as more cars/homes would have to be broken into before the villains found what they were after.

Most of them are either pros or really determined drug addicts.

The only real way to stop crime is to catch the offenders and lock them away.

Well said Steve Toy.

quote:

Originally posted by John Sheridan:

quote:

Originally posted by wellyspyder:
It is only a speed limit, not safe limit, duh. Pass me the Duff beer please.

you obviously do as you're claiming that exceeding it is always dangerous.

Please enlighten me, where did I claim that the speed limit is safe? Find the evidence or shut up. You are a speeder? Or single issue nutter?

I am trying to say, if you drive above the speed limit you are going to be fined, there, hope this is clear. Now I have to call you a moron again! Speed limit not safe limit, Duh again. LOL.

quote:

Originally posted by wellyspyder:
Please enlighten me, where did I claim that the speed limit is safe? Find the evidence or shut up. You are a speeder? Or single issue nutter?

true, you only implied it by claiming that anyone exceeding it is an anti-social moron. No, I'm not a speeder, I always drive to the conditions. If wanting safer roads is a single issue, then yes, I'm a single issue nutter.

Dear John, I would like to have safer roads too like you, even better, safer drivers, please.

The reason I use the word moron is because; why are you all hell bent on giving hard earned cash away so readily? Better saved for upgrades huh? Relax, smell the rose. Anyway, I am going to listen to some music now. TTFN.

quote:

why are you all hell bent on giving hard earned cash away so readily?

and who said I'd given any hard earned cash away?

quote:

I would like to have safer roads too like you, even better, safer drivers, please.

well yes, this is what I meant. How we convince people to get that extra training when they all believe they have nothing to learn is another question.

High vitriolic content to posts = weak argument and/or the lack of ability to engage in debate.

Don't feed the troll.

Talking of trolls that live under bridges (or in tunnels,) isn't that what a camera is in a tunnel, if it's enforcing a speed limit lowered purely for revenue?

quote:

Talking of trolls that live under bridges (or in tunnels,) isn't that what a camera is in a tunnel, if it's enforcing a speed limit lowered purely for revenue?

This is not difficult:

Speed cameras generate income only because people choose to exceed speed limits.

Simple.

There will never be agreement in this debate about the wrongs/rights of speed cameras and policy, road traffic policing etc etc.

And to think my efforts (ok, so I was defeated by technology) to post a light hearted exchange of letters between a motorist and the police led to this somewhat heated discussion.

quote:

This is not difficult:

Speed cameras generate income only because people choose to exceed speed limits.

So everyone complies with the new 40 limit and revenues fall. So what do the local authorities do? They lower it to 30 and so on.

When does it end?

Why do you support government policy on lowering limits purely for revenue collection?

I'd just rather see more patrol cars than cameras. A patrol car can spot the difference between bad/dangerous driving, regardless of speed. The camera obviously can't. That for me, is the big problem.

Cameras outside schools and the like i've got no problem with, better still use the old speed bumps.(But they don't raise money do they )

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Toy:

quote:

This is not difficult:

Speed cameras generate income only because people choose to exceed speed limits.

Why do you support government policy on lowering limits purely for revenue collection?

I don't.

But if I choose to exceed a posted limit (and I do, often) and get caught at least I don't come here to whinge and moan and bleat about how unfair it all is.

Some people need to grow up and face the inevitable consequences of their own actions.

If you don't like Government policy, lobby your MP.

But the logical extrapolation of this is that we are not even allowed to discuss something here, if 'here' has not got the power to change it.

I don't accept that, and judging from your posts elswehere, neither do you.

The "that's just the way it is - get over it" answer is just a discussion-stifler of the Parry-esque "I am right therefore you are wrong" kind.

Complaining/discussing/talking about/whinging are all potentially facets of the same coin. If you choose to see it as whinging and it pisses you off so much, why do you continue to post in, or even read, the thread?

quote:

Originally posted by rodwsmith:

If you choose to see it as whinging and it pisses you off so much, why do you continue to post in, or even read, the thread?

This has been done to death over the past 12 months and there are no new arguments put forward.

But you are right; it is a waste of my time so I'll leave you to it.

quote:

Originally posted by Nigel Cavendish:
But if I choose to exceed a posted limit (and I do, often) and get caught at least I don't come here to whinge and moan and bleat about how unfair it all is.

I must have missed that bit. Who said they got caught, and who's not taking responsibility for their own actions?

I've not been done yet, but it'll will most likely to be a van that will get me, parked on a bridge over a dual carriageway or motorway enforcing the 70 limit.

quote:

But the logical extrapolation of this is that we are not even allowed to discuss something here, if 'here' has not got the power to change it.

The rot actually set in in 1995 (under the last Tory government) when local authorities were permitted to set their own speed limits, instead of having to comply with norms established by road traffic engineers and the 85th percentile speed. The camera partnerships have just made things much worse.

The only way to change it will be through the ballot box in a few years' time. This government cares little for the views of the majority; they have their own agenda to pursue no matter what. Their arrogance may yet be clipped in just one week though, when the fuel blockades start...

Sheesh,

I get some of this at work! This thread suddenly took off a little, did it not?

I've just read it, and would like to add a bit of 'pro' thought to the debate.

Its true that some speed limits are set too low.

Its also true that some exceed the speed limit without regard for the consequences of others.

Its correct that traffic/roads policing cops would use discretion, but that works two ways - being caught by the camera shows the speed limit, but doesn't show the due car/dangerous as well! Think about this one!!!

Its also true that cops cost cash, and some would prefer to pay higher insurance that contribute tax wise to increase the threat of prison/punishment etc.

Its also true that driving incorrectly for given conditions causes crashes, and this contains unsuitable speed for the conditions.

I mentioned driving basics, and got scoffed at. Can you stop in the distance you can see to be clear in the event of the need to do an emergency stop? if we 'all' did this the results would be obvious. Its because some of us are selfish re driving manner that this doesn't happen.

An example of this is next time you are out and a vehicle goes past you on an A road, see if in a couple of minutes time that vehicle has vanished into the distance. More often that not they only made a couple of minutes extra - thats probably all important to them, but at what potential price?

andy c!

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:
Its correct that traffic/roads policing cops would use discretion, but that works two ways - being caught by the camera shows the speed limit, but doesn't show the due car/dangerous as well! Think about this one!!!

but Andy, that's exactly why we're arguing against cameras - they can never work as claimed (to reduce accidents) for the simple reason that they don't deter/can't catch the people most likely to have an accident.

Hi John,
very true,

but some would prefer just the ticket for speeding, rather than the court appearance for due care due to the type of speeding witnessed etc...

PS they do deter crashes by 4%!

andy c!

quote:

PS they do deter crashes by 4%!

I'd like to see proof of that one as nobody else seems to be able to come up with it without severely massaging the numbers or relying on regression to the mean. If it were true, shouldn't the UK road toll have been falling for the past 10 years, continuing a 50 year trend, rather than remaining more or less the same?

I seem to recall these figures were from the DfT, and were quoted over on PFM during a similar speed camera thead...

I think driving manner and a bit of patience solves a lot more that speed camera's - its just that some are always in a ruch so they follow too close/don't indicate/DLAI (Drive Like An Idiot)

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:
I seem to recall these figures were from the DfT,

and said something like "reduced by 4%*"
* at specially selected sites as others are unreliable.

or words to that effect.

Isn't it the case that the best performing counties with regards to accident reduction don't have any speed cameras?

Dunno,

What I can say is that where I used to ply my trade there were four junctions where crashes happened and speed was a common factor. The circs would be a vehicle pulling out was hit by another on the main road exceeding the speed limit.

Speed camera's were installed prior to these jucntions, with a view to slowing the traffic down. Funnily enough the number of collisions dropped after the install!

used 'properly' they can be very effective as a crash reduction tool.

andy c!

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:
used 'properly' they can be very effective as a crash reduction tool.

used properly, perhaps. However in the cases you mentioned the people pulling out were clearly at fault, so nothing really to do with speed - ie if they're pulling out without looking they could just have easily have been hit by a car travelling below the speed limit, or a bike. Trust me, I've been hit by one of them.