Wanna talk about abortion?

quote:

Assisted abortions or terminations of pregnancy are going to take place anyway

Murders are going to take place anyway so why not just legalise the whole lot.

Think of the savings in police and courts and justice systems and prisons.

Not a good argument doc.

quote:

inevitable increase in unwanted teenage pregnancies

How about teaching your kids not to screw around in the first place?! Once again prevention is better than cure (and a whole lot cheaper).

quote:

Your argument seems to boil down to a weird sort of christian-utopian dream.

People fuck outside of marriage. Always have; always will. It's a fact. There's even accounts of it happening in The Bible...

Your argument to prevent pregnancy in the first place doesn't change facts. Neither do laws.

Having morals is not a wierd 'christian-utopian' dream - it's a good thing!

I know people screw around, and they do too in the bible.

Don't make it right, sensible or cost-effective does it?

Keeping your legs closed isn't that difficult actually - you just need some self-control.

We should be teaching our children that and practising fidelity as adults, instead of making excuses.

Yeah joe90, but even in a morally perfect world, we're still stuck with the imperfect bodies that God gave us. Even if every pregnancy was inside a marriage there would be a need for medical intervention to terminate pregnancies.

quote:

Even if every pregnancy was inside a marriage there would be a need for medical intervention to terminate pregnancies.

Why?

Why?

Try here

ROFLMAO

You cannot link back to your own previous argument...Thats lame!

I'd like to know how many women have taken part in this debate.

Are you all men?

No, We are Devo

I am Spartacus...

quote:

I am Spartacus...

I'm Brian and so is my wife...

Whatever action you take you should be responsible for it and accept the consequences. It isn't for the parents to decide not to accept that responsibility once the deed is done. What's that saying about repenting at leisure? Well, there you go. It's called responsibility.

Frank

It is for parent(s) and the medical profession under the law to decide. They live with the consequences whatever decision is reached.

That is the case currently, and I disagree with it since I believe there is already a living human being in there. As nobody has the right to make that decision over someone else in ordinary life, it shouldn't be allowed in pregnancy. And after all, there are many doctors refusing to perform abortions...

Joe, am I correct in thinking that your beliefs are those of a Christian.

Get real - life is not in black and white.

RW,

Yes sometimes it is, but too many people become mealy mouthed about having convictions nowadays!

A few years ago, I got my parner pregnant early on in our relationship, we were using contraception, but it didnt work, even with the emergency contraception the next day.

My partner at the time was in the middle of her phd, we agreed that it would be "unfair", and not the right time or circumstance to go ahead.

I spoke with my Mum, who is a Christian, about what had happened etc, she was very shocked, I told her that we were planning on going down the abortion route - she replied with "thats murder", which really upset me, she didnt even begin to understand. It certanly didnt help the situation.

Some weeks later, my partner ended up having an ectopic pregnancy, she was wrongly diagnosed on several occasions (go home you have just got IBS) - she nearly died, in fact I dont mean nearly, it was nearly a miracle that she didnt given the amount of blood she lost.

When my mum heard this, despite my partner being so close to losing her life, my mum was so bloody relieved that she came out with that "God had decided it wasnt right", this made me sick.

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by joe90:

quote:

Assisted abortions or terminations of pregnancy are going to take place anyway

Murders are going to take place anyway so why not just legalise the whole lot.

Think of the savings in police and courts and justice systems and prisons.

Not a good argument doc.

It isn't murder if lives are saved.
Legalising TOPs has saved thousands of young womens' lives from back-street abortionists, (the unwanted fetus doesn't make it either way). If you had worked with young people in absolute distress over this issue, I doubt if you could continue to claim the anti-abortion stance as the caring way. People like you give Christianity a bad name.

quote:

Originally posted by Rockingdoc:
People like you give Christianity a bad name.

Absolutely.

The religious principles are based on rules and guidelines that were appropriate, many years ago, for a poor subsistence society scratching a living off the land, they were subject to droughts floods etc. The child survival rate would have been extremely low hence the community elders would have decreed that abortion was inappropriate for the economy. To get the ruling obeyed they would have dressed it up as an order/instruction from a higher authority that they had invented earlier to ensure that they maintained power over the people.

See also about rules about eating pork in the summer based on the lack of refrigeration in hot weather etc.

quote:

It isn't murder if lives are saved.
Legalising TOPs has saved thousands of young womens' lives from back-street abortionists, (the unwanted fetus doesn't make it either way). If you had worked with young people in absolute distress over this issue, I doubt if you could continue to claim the anti-abortion stance as the caring way. People like you give Christianity a bad name.

Rocking Doc,

Tell that to the millions more unwanted babies.

quote:

Legalising TOPs has saved thousands of young womens' lives from back-street abortionists, (the unwanted fetus doesn't make it either way). If you had worked with young people in absolute distress over this issue, I doubt if you could continue to claim the anti-abortion stance as the caring way. People like you give Christianity a bad name.

I'm not saying that's not true - I'm advocating MORALS as a superb alternative. That way no one has to die.


Christianity is about standing up for what's RIGHT, not what's convenient. The problem is these 'young people' can't keep their pants up.

You think I'm giving christianity a bad name? Shows how little you know about Christianity. You give humanity a bad name - throwing away your unborn children like so much garbage.

Don't have sex outside marriage or until you are ready to accept the consequences of your actions if you do get pregnant.

Like I said before - you might be pro-abortion, but you're glad your mum wasnt, right?

quote:

The religious principles are based on rules and guidelines that were appropriate, many years ago, for a poor subsistence society scratching a living off the land, they were subject to droughts floods etc. The child survival rate would have been extremely low hence the community elders would have decreed that abortion was inappropriate for the economy. To get the ruling obeyed they would have dressed it up as an order/instruction from a higher authority that they had invented earlier to ensure that they maintained power over the people.

Tosh. Total and utter piffle.

People back then had a common conception that their babies are alive and kicking human beings - not disposable garbage caused by immorality and charcterless stupidity.

The only reason you are here today to spout such drivel is that your mum was anti-abortion - remember that.

Derek,

Those conditions still exist today in many parts of the world and in fact they are an argument for abortion, not against. If times are tough and there are precious few resources, there is little sense in spreading those resources between too many children. Have a sensible number (say 4) and then ensure you have no more since you won't be able to sustain them and ensure their survival.

I have problems with this scenario of course, but I find that a more exigent need than the vast majority of abortions which occur in this country because 'the time isn't right' or 'it's unfair on the child' (sorry Right Wing, but that's my view).

Blimey! Me and joe90 on the same side..is that a first?

Frank

quote:

Have a sensible number (say 4) and then ensure you have no more since you won't be able to sustain them and ensure their survival.

I think you are making an argument for contraception rather than abortion itself. Not unrelated of course but the moral issues about preventing conception are not as divisive for most, unless you are Catholic of course.

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by joe90:
The only reason you are here today to spout such drivel is that your mum was anti-abortion - remember that.

Having realised that this thread had decended into an argument with each side simply refuting the claims of the other (which reminds me of a well-known Monty Python sketch!) i wasn't going to post again.

However, that has to be one of the most irrational (and, with respect, juvenile) statements i've ever read on this forum...

Phil