Any happy Naim users out there ? A little philosophy.

Stewart

Are you going to Tosca again at Seattle Opera? It opens on February 24th. (Did you see Billy Budd in January? Brilliant performance.)

Paul

I have recently upgraded my system to the following, Naim CDX, Naim 82/Hi-cap/180, Ruark Equinox's.

I have to say that I am very happy with my system. For the first time the system sounds exactly how I want it to. My system sounds like a true Naim system. The treble is sweet, the bass is there when you want it. The soundstage is deep and three dimensional. I have acheived a well balanced system and I am happy with it.

I have heard these boom-crash-bang systems and I am not impressed they sound like you are listening through cotton wool, no thanks. I have also visited the Bristol Hi-Fi show for many years now and listened to many famous names and to me the one system that always stands out as being the best is the Naim demonstration, need I say more!

Regards

NB

To Tom Alves: Se non è vero, è ben trovato. Congratulations

Bernard

No system on earth will ever equal live music but naim gets closer than many in my view. I'm actually concluding I'd quite like a flat and round earth system - valves and pro-ac's are very relaxing and there are times when that would be welcome! Today I feel tired having just flown back from Muscat - I maybe don't need the PA style vigour of naim tonight!

I have always found HI-fi shows to be aspirational but when I got to CDI/Gyro/102/180/SBL I ceased to come home depressed by the gap between what I heard at the show and what I have at home. The NAP500 DBL at BRistol will I'm sure blow my system into the next century but critically I can now comfort myself with the law of diminishing returns and the fact that my system produces music in a way that I really enjoy.

I still hanker after DBL's though even to the point of thinking in terms of getting to 102/250/250/NAXO and just going for them - they do stuff which no other component change can and to hell with system heirarchy!!

Jonathan

The fact i'm not happy with my
music collection...result
i'm buying vinyl where i see it ....

Have fun! Don't think to much.
Simply enjoy live with a lagavulin
and a montecristo.

Regards
-mb

ALas, I'm not immune to upgrade-itis, but it will be a while.

It is not eanough to tell that someone enjoys to listen to a modest system. I think the question should be - is there someone who loves to listen to music at home, knows that there are expensive good systems out there, has the money to buy such a system - but prefer to listen to a cheap stero.
Several years ago there was an international conductors meeting in Israel. There was a review with one of them on the Israely TV - and I was surprised to hear him claiming that listening to cd's at home is better than listening to vinyl because (among other things) you can't listen loudly with a TT. What kind of systm does this conductor have at home ? A plastic TT ? I'm sure he understands nothing about the way a person can listen to music at home.
I think (it is my philosophy) that good things (in every area) are expensive (be aware that I'm not saying that expensive things are good...).
Theoretically it is clear to me that every system I own (with my present bank limitation) can be improved by upgrading.
What happened to me until now, is that every new upgrade brought a great improvement in sound. After a while , when I familiare to the sound, and I get experience with the new setting, I find its faults and I want to improve them too.
The problem is (to my mind) that as the system goes better, it is more and more expensive to improve the faults I find in it.

Arye

You said something interesting : that many musicians use modest systems. Even though some of them could afford great stuff. I would personally add to this that many musicians (and I know some of them) don't care at all about "standards” the way we audiophiles do ! As a listener-only, I’ve gathered quite some knowledge about classical pianists, for instance, and being able to say (IMHO) that Gilels has the most beautiful piano sound, that Horowitz could produce the sound of an orchestra with a Steinway (the Hendrix of the piano), that Lipatti was the most elegant and that Richter just kept me spellbound.

Have you ever seen a (even very good) musician who knows the “must-have” discography as good as audiophiles do ? You can take it the other way round: take Keith Richards. The day he created his very distinctive guitar sound, do you think he said to himself “wow, that’s beautiful !”. As a matter of fact, his guitar sound is far from being beautiful, yet it’s still fantastic because it’s just him.

This is just to say that musicians and audiophiles are just looking for totally different things. Musicians produce, audiophiles consume. A musician has to work more to reach his dream, an audiophile does the same by upgrading (by spending silly amounts of money).

From this point of view, I’m asking myself whether comparing a live performance (the only actual music, so to speak) to the air waves coming out of a speaker really makes sense. To go even further, AC/DC sound much “better” on a pair of dreadful Marantz LS-17 with a kicking 30-cm-bass at deafening volume. And I still call it music, BTW.

And now, to comment your statement about this conductor: does a musician really have to mind about the sound expected by audiophiles ? I don’t think so, he’s interested in the sound he produces for the audience of the moment. He’s a creator, after all. And this way to work has brought us the occasional “screaming” upper C’s of Maria Callas, the horribly distorted guitar of Hendrix, the whisky-drenched voice of Tom Waits, and so on … Would these unique artists really have been better if they had always followed the requirements of the audiophiles we are ?

That way, our music world would be entirely composed of Claydermans, Kenny G’s, Lee Ritenours …

Thank God music is not made by audiophiles.

Bernard

I don't know how "unique" is an electronic instrument compare to a classical one and I'd always wondered about this point.
As far as I know, the sound of electrial instruments can be adjust by the player. Many groups adjusted the sound of the electrical equipment they played to a kind of sound they wanted (I don't know how did they do it - with the equipment or with the amplifiers etc.).
The sound of a classical equipment is a given fact.
That's means (IMO) that a conductor, when listening to music at home, wants to hear as musch as possible the sound he hears in the concert hall (and he is at the best position there !!).
That's can't be achieved with cheap systems (and as you say, it can't be achieved with the most expensive one). But the conductor must know that there are expensive systms that can bring him closer to the level of sound he hears at the concert hall and if he doesn't know it, the sound engineer must know !
so we, the listeners, shouldn't consider about the knowledge of the musicuian about listening to music at home, but to the knowledge of the sound engineer.

Arye

i consider naim a means to an end, and measure my happiness in terms of how close i get to than end. to appreciate the musical content of a piece. i want my system to tell me things beyond the notes and the sound. i want all the nuances to be laid bare.

as i move up the naim hierarchy, i feel i am getting closer and closer. its not easy -- so many things get in the way -- shoddy installations, etc. but i feel i am getting there. i dont have to own the ultimate naim system to enjoy music...

enjoy...

ken

"a conductor, when listening to music at home, wants to hear as much as possible the sound he hears in the concert hall". That's your case, and mine too. But I'm not a musician - I can fully imagine that "accurate" sound reproduction is not a vital matter for many musicians. What they are interested in, is the work they achieve here and now.

But I have to give you right on one point: Some conductors should pay more attention to the work of their sound engineer, Karajan for instance. On the other hand, I am right now listening to Schubert's Winterreise by Hans Hotter, a recording from the 50's. Nothing to do with Hifi, but it's still heaven.

Bernard

I consider myself to be a happy Naim fan. I've recently got close to the top of the Naim hierarchy and don't regret spending a penny! This was, in my case, one hop from Nait (yes the original) to what I have now. Am I happy - of course I am! The issue is not one of Musician verses Audiophile and how they interpret music but more one of personal priorities and assessment of value. In my case the very large of sum of money I paid was well worth it because, when I listen to a piece of music that is well recorded, a smile bigger than the Grand Canyon appears on my face. This coupled with the feet tapping and the exclaimations of "I don't believe it!" make it all worth while. There are, of course, recordings that sound as good or, in some cases, better on lesser systems. The point is, as we all know, the higher quality system is more capable of extracting what is there. Garbage in is equal to garbage out. I have several Waterboys LPs which are good examples of music that sounded better on my Nait. However, I have some recordings which are truly awesome and I would never have experienced the listening pleasure that I have now with my trusty old Nait.
I see the value. This is a personal thing and, in my experience, does not vary by occupation but by personal perception of value. There are indeed musicians who do spend very large amounts of money on hifi in search of listening pleasure(e.g. Nick Mason from Pink Floyd and Elton John to name two). Equally there are some that don't. This is no different to other walks in society. I know a builder (not a millionaire) whose system is even higher on the Naim tree. Those who get the emotion and enjoyment from a budget system are very lucky indeed! But then so am I because my personal feeling is that I get what I want - that smile .

The lounge system grew over 15 years and I enjoy it enough not to sell it, but I could live without it. The second system is an integral part of my enjoyment of life. IMHO those forum members who have more modest systems than the estoric equipment that is frequently mentioned on the forum may be having more fun. It would be interesting to hear from the downgraders like Tanias Fox in a few years time and see what they think with the benefit of some hindsight.

Nic P

I'm pretty sure your dissatisfaction with the lounge system is could be resolved/ameliorated by attention to the room.

Look through some of the stuff posted by 'Juan Zenuff', for instance.

I recently tried Monitor Audio Studio 60s in my system (52/135s). They sounded OK. Once returned to the owner they sounded *MUCH* better - on 72/hi/250. This with the 72 system switched on for the first time in three months, and the Hi & 250 were just back from service @ Naim (so run-in also required).

I believe my room needs some drastic upgrading!

cheers, Martin

quote:

---

a recording from the 50's. Nothing to do with Hifi, but it's still heaven.

---

I have also old records that sound great. I think it proves that the talent of the sound engineer is
more important than the equipment he uses.

Arye

This old EMI recording, though, is no good at all, and the spectrum is severely cut at both ends. But it's Hans Hotter singing the "Winterreise". And that's way enough to be happy. Sometimes the performance is so brilliant that listening to it on a dirty kitchen radio just doesn't matter at all.

Bernard

I don't agree with you about this, but this is a manner of personal taste.
I travel a lot in the Galil area in Israel. This is a mountains area and many times the broadcasting of the radio I love is not clear.
I noticed many times, that even when I'm listening to a song I love to listen to, if the broadcasting is not very good at the least, I can't listen to it and I look for another broadcasting.
I have the same feeling at home, the sound quality is a must for me to listen to music.
I can listen several times to material I don't like at the first time - if the sound quality is a very good one.

I hope I got your point this time...
Did I ?

Arye

quote:

---

IMO, people upgrade for one of 3 reasons:

(1) perception that their current setup is flawed;
(2) obsession with having something better; or
(3) envy that others have better kit.

---

James,

I'd add another to your list: -

(4) have some spare funds and can't think of anything else to spend it on that would give as much, long term, enjoyment as a better hi-fi does.

Andy (just spent his spare funds) Weekes.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com

oh, i guess its obvious, i am very happy with my current system. i know i will be even happier when my active system is installed.

enjoy...

ken

" How'd all these people get in my room ?? "

I sometimes wonder!

BTW - yes I'm happy

P.