CDS1 fraternity
Posted by: graphoman on 05 November 2003
Since even CDS2 got obsolate and the CDS1/CDS2 update is not available any more, it’s a matter of fact if you are a CDS1 owner you’ll be a CDS1 owner for long. (Could have you been able to pay for the update or for a real upgrade you’ve allready done it in all possibilities.)
Therefore it seems salutary to collect all informations a CDS1 owner should know: how to get the best from your player, maintenance, the topic of the Ring, what you can make in the kitchen and what are the symptoms when you can’t help but send your CD to Salisbury (and what to expect from Salisbury) etc. etc.
All right, all these informations may be present in a lot of topics on the Forum but now it’s a tyresome work (if possible at all) to collect them. Though not totally newcomer on this Forum, I’m just in the hope of learning a lot on this future Club of CDS1 while even I may tell you some useful as well.
graphoman
Therefore it seems salutary to collect all informations a CDS1 owner should know: how to get the best from your player, maintenance, the topic of the Ring, what you can make in the kitchen and what are the symptoms when you can’t help but send your CD to Salisbury (and what to expect from Salisbury) etc. etc.
All right, all these informations may be present in a lot of topics on the Forum but now it’s a tyresome work (if possible at all) to collect them. Though not totally newcomer on this Forum, I’m just in the hope of learning a lot on this future Club of CDS1 while even I may tell you some useful as well.
graphoman
Posted on: 05 November 2003 by dave simpson
Posted on: 05 November 2003 by Tim Danaher
Volt az enyem, de eladtam. A CD5 jobb, szerintem...nincs segítség, tudom.
Csak az én 2 fillerem...
Cheers,
Tim
_____________________________
Os nid Campagnolo yw hi, dyw hi ddim yn werth ei marcho...
Csak az én 2 fillerem...
Cheers,
Tim
_____________________________
Os nid Campagnolo yw hi, dyw hi ddim yn werth ei marcho...
Posted on: 06 November 2003 by Brucie
Well I am certainly one of those CDS1 owners that is not intending to part with it. I would not have been able to afford a CDS2 upgrade so the fact that it is no longer availble means little.
You will certainly not find me taking my CDS1 apart as Dave describes. I live in South Africa and if anything went wrong, it's a long way to Salisbury!
I am more interested in issues such as cleaning the nextel ring and discussing what platform best suits the player. Maybe even interconnects although I think the conventional wisdom is to stick with the one supplied.
Doe many CDS1 owners out there partner it with a NAC52? How did they find this upgrade? My next planned upgrade is a 52/super (currently using 72/hi) but was worried the 52 might be too unkind on the CDS1.
Anyone bought the new burndy cable for the CDS1?
Cheers
Bruce
You will certainly not find me taking my CDS1 apart as Dave describes. I live in South Africa and if anything went wrong, it's a long way to Salisbury!
I am more interested in issues such as cleaning the nextel ring and discussing what platform best suits the player. Maybe even interconnects although I think the conventional wisdom is to stick with the one supplied.
Doe many CDS1 owners out there partner it with a NAC52? How did they find this upgrade? My next planned upgrade is a 52/super (currently using 72/hi) but was worried the 52 might be too unkind on the CDS1.
Anyone bought the new burndy cable for the CDS1?
Cheers
Bruce
Posted on: 06 November 2003 by graphoman
sorry but I think it’s not what I’ve ment.
To begin at the beginning: maybe I’m too old and cursed by snobbery but considering the list of “music was spun during construction” (in CDS Maintenance)one can’t help but wonder what some people would call music. In my practice, listening sessions like that do contribute very little to inform any serious music listener.
The maintenance information you show is random and to be frankly, I would not recommend anybody set the CDS1 apart, I think this job is preserved for good service personnel.
What I’d add to this topic is rather straitforward: the electronics of the CDS1 can hardly be repaired outside of Salisbury (supposed you don’t have acquaintance to the best measuring institutes around) but the Philips CDM4 chassis, yes, can be regulated any time in any good Philips service station where they have a service manual for the Philips CD 850/II or likes.
I’m interested to collect information on the Puck as well as the Nextel Ring problem but this topic seems out of reach via the source you recommended (you may try it).
So I’m think my proposition does have sense.
graphoman
To begin at the beginning: maybe I’m too old and cursed by snobbery but considering the list of “music was spun during construction” (in CDS Maintenance)one can’t help but wonder what some people would call music. In my practice, listening sessions like that do contribute very little to inform any serious music listener.
The maintenance information you show is random and to be frankly, I would not recommend anybody set the CDS1 apart, I think this job is preserved for good service personnel.
What I’d add to this topic is rather straitforward: the electronics of the CDS1 can hardly be repaired outside of Salisbury (supposed you don’t have acquaintance to the best measuring institutes around) but the Philips CDM4 chassis, yes, can be regulated any time in any good Philips service station where they have a service manual for the Philips CD 850/II or likes.
I’m interested to collect information on the Puck as well as the Nextel Ring problem but this topic seems out of reach via the source you recommended (you may try it).
So I’m think my proposition does have sense.
graphoman
Posted on: 06 November 2003 by Geofiz
I also am in no hurry to depart with my CDS1.
For interconnects, the latest offering from Naim (the blueish-grey jacket) cable is an improvement over the grey snaic.
If there is a S/H 52/SC in your area, get it. The improvement is substantial and the CDS1 will really shine. That is what I have.
Careful when going to get a replacement burndy for the CDS1. I procured what I had been led to believe was a new black burndy for the CDS1 CDPS but it was the new black burndy for the CDS2/XPS and up units. There is an additional pair of pins on the older CDS1 burndy that is not present on the black XPS burndy cable. If you use the wrong cable, the CDS1 display will show ERR. No apparent harm will come to the player however.
Cheers and good luck
For interconnects, the latest offering from Naim (the blueish-grey jacket) cable is an improvement over the grey snaic.
If there is a S/H 52/SC in your area, get it. The improvement is substantial and the CDS1 will really shine. That is what I have.
Careful when going to get a replacement burndy for the CDS1. I procured what I had been led to believe was a new black burndy for the CDS1 CDPS but it was the new black burndy for the CDS2/XPS and up units. There is an additional pair of pins on the older CDS1 burndy that is not present on the black XPS burndy cable. If you use the wrong cable, the CDS1 display will show ERR. No apparent harm will come to the player however.
Cheers and good luck
Posted on: 06 November 2003 by graphoman
megtudhatnék rólad valami közelebbit? Email to: graphoman@mail.datanet.hu
It’s interesting to read Hungarian on this Forum. If it would come from Ireland, then OK, we know the hero of Joyce’s Ulisses was a Hungarian. But from Wales? I did not read anything from Burns about Hungarians...
graphoman
It’s interesting to read Hungarian on this Forum. If it would come from Ireland, then OK, we know the hero of Joyce’s Ulisses was a Hungarian. But from Wales? I did not read anything from Burns about Hungarians...
graphoman
Posted on: 06 November 2003 by Tim Danaher
Graphoman --
Volt egyszer a magyar barátnõm...(of course)
private e-mail on the way...
p.s. Burns Skot volt, nincs egyik a 'Walesi Bardok'!
Cheers,
Tim
_____________________________
Os nid Campagnolo yw hi, dyw hi ddim yn werth ei marcho...
Volt egyszer a magyar barátnõm...(of course)
private e-mail on the way...
p.s. Burns Skot volt, nincs egyik a 'Walesi Bardok'!
Cheers,
Tim
_____________________________
Os nid Campagnolo yw hi, dyw hi ddim yn werth ei marcho...
Posted on: 06 November 2003 by dave simpson
Bruce/Graphoman,
We're in complete agreement here about opening your CDS for any reason unless you're confident you can follow the procedures without doing harm to the unit...if not....don't open it.
Regarding the use of a CDS (mk1) with a 52....no worries Bruce! The CDS was designed with (and for) the 52. They are a match made in heaven. Though I don't own a 52, I did manage to borrow one for a month while a 52-owning friend was on vacation. It was...unbelievable. It's still hard to listen to my 102 (if I think about the sound of that 52;-).
One day...a 52 will be mine ;-)
Puck Maintenance - keep the puck out of the player when not in use. Clean puck with Blu-tak (jam a blob into the puck's spindle recess to remove imbedded dirt and brush off o-ring dust particles with finger. Purchase several pucks ( I have 5) and rotate between each cd played to delay permanent o-ring compression.
The Nextel ring-clean with finger regularly(clean entire hub with finger while you're cleaning the ring). This removes small particles of debris which cause the cd to slip (mistrack) and *seems* to improve sound (if dirt particles were present). My Nextel ring is showing a minute wear ring developing after 7(?) years of heavy use, though it doesn't appear to affect sound or tracking.
New S-Burndy improves the CDS mk1 ?... I'll let you know in two weeks;-)
hth,
dave
[This message was edited by dave simpson on FRIDAY 07 November 2003 at 03:08.]
We're in complete agreement here about opening your CDS for any reason unless you're confident you can follow the procedures without doing harm to the unit...if not....don't open it.
Regarding the use of a CDS (mk1) with a 52....no worries Bruce! The CDS was designed with (and for) the 52. They are a match made in heaven. Though I don't own a 52, I did manage to borrow one for a month while a 52-owning friend was on vacation. It was...unbelievable. It's still hard to listen to my 102 (if I think about the sound of that 52;-).
One day...a 52 will be mine ;-)
Puck Maintenance - keep the puck out of the player when not in use. Clean puck with Blu-tak (jam a blob into the puck's spindle recess to remove imbedded dirt and brush off o-ring dust particles with finger. Purchase several pucks ( I have 5) and rotate between each cd played to delay permanent o-ring compression.
The Nextel ring-clean with finger regularly(clean entire hub with finger while you're cleaning the ring). This removes small particles of debris which cause the cd to slip (mistrack) and *seems* to improve sound (if dirt particles were present). My Nextel ring is showing a minute wear ring developing after 7(?) years of heavy use, though it doesn't appear to affect sound or tracking.
New S-Burndy improves the CDS mk1 ?... I'll let you know in two weeks;-)
hth,
dave
[This message was edited by dave simpson on FRIDAY 07 November 2003 at 03:08.]
Posted on: 07 November 2003 by Brucie
CDS1 fraternity,
Cleaning the nextel ring with ones finger sounds a bit heavy handed(?). Dave, do you secure the top transport bolts when you clean the nextel ring? I could imagine the top wobbling quite a bit unless you do?
Glad to hear a 52/super is a good combo with the CDS1.
I like the idea of rotating pucks. I have 2 pucks and am using the single bung version at the mo. I always take out my discs after playing so as to minimise wear. Anyone else do this? I then put the puck in the top corner of the transport then close the lid.
I've only had my CDS1 since July which replaced by CD3. The CDS1 is older than the CD3, but boy does it sound so much better.
Cheers
b
Cleaning the nextel ring with ones finger sounds a bit heavy handed(?). Dave, do you secure the top transport bolts when you clean the nextel ring? I could imagine the top wobbling quite a bit unless you do?
Glad to hear a 52/super is a good combo with the CDS1.
I like the idea of rotating pucks. I have 2 pucks and am using the single bung version at the mo. I always take out my discs after playing so as to minimise wear. Anyone else do this? I then put the puck in the top corner of the transport then close the lid.
I've only had my CDS1 since July which replaced by CD3. The CDS1 is older than the CD3, but boy does it sound so much better.
Cheers
b
Posted on: 07 November 2003 by roger poll
Brucie,
I'm pleased to hear your CDS1, which I think I may have previously owned, is peforming well.
I puchased it new and it gave me trouble free service and wonderful music combined with a 52/supercap. Why did I part with it? I purchased a CDS3 from Peter at Cymbiosis.
Good listening,
Roger Poll.
I'm pleased to hear your CDS1, which I think I may have previously owned, is peforming well.
I puchased it new and it gave me trouble free service and wonderful music combined with a 52/supercap. Why did I part with it? I purchased a CDS3 from Peter at Cymbiosis.
Good listening,
Roger Poll.
Posted on: 07 November 2003 by rohit
quote:
Doe many CDS1 owners out there partner it with a NAC52?
i do, but both use the black Burndy.
the CDS1 Burndy is not a modified S-XPS type.
i enjoyed a 52/scap/140 more than a 82/scap/250 between my CDS1 and IBLv2 at home.
Roger,
can you pen a bit (including system context) about your S1 to S3 experience ?
thanks
Posted on: 07 November 2003 by dave simpson
quote:
Cleaning the nextel ring with ones finger sounds a bit heavy handed(?). Dave, do you secure the top transport bolts when you clean the nextel ring? I could imagine the top wobbling quite a bit unless you do?
Only use the tip of your finger (no force required) as you "wipe" the Nextel ring clean. With no additional pressure applied, the suspension is not significantly displaced (locking the suspension is not required in other words).
quote:
I always take out my discs after playing so as to minimise wear. Anyone else do this? I then put the puck in the top corner of the transport then close the lid.
I always remove mine immediately after play, again it minimises O-ring compression. I would not leave the puck inside the unit. The transport tray is coated with an expensive, flat finished paint designed to minimise light reflection. The paint film can easily be scratched (damaged) by fingernails or the puck itself when removed from the tray.
regards,
dave
Posted on: 09 November 2003 by graphoman
thanks for the tips concerning puck/ring maintenance. I have 2 pucks and observing the reserve one, yes, I see the O-ring was more intact than the other. Is the O-ring capable to be restored if out of use, I wonder. I may acquire some more pucks. (Mine ones have one O-ring each, the dealer told me that’s the kind that sound the best.)
Still open question is what to do if the CDM4 goes blooey. What can Salisbury do and for what a price. Maybe the bad chassis can be replaced by some original CDM4 if not in the kitchen or in the next Philips service but at the next Naim dealer? I have one such chassis as reserve, it comes from a Marantz but have run not more than 100 hours.
My CDS1 is an early one, vintage 1990. Has the chassis to be replaced, maybe in Salisbury, then would it be possible to carry out there some useful modification to bring it nearer to the latest CDS1 standard, I wonder. And what about the similarly 13-years-old CDPS?
graphoman
Still open question is what to do if the CDM4 goes blooey. What can Salisbury do and for what a price. Maybe the bad chassis can be replaced by some original CDM4 if not in the kitchen or in the next Philips service but at the next Naim dealer? I have one such chassis as reserve, it comes from a Marantz but have run not more than 100 hours.
My CDS1 is an early one, vintage 1990. Has the chassis to be replaced, maybe in Salisbury, then would it be possible to carry out there some useful modification to bring it nearer to the latest CDS1 standard, I wonder. And what about the similarly 13-years-old CDPS?
graphoman
Posted on: 09 November 2003 by dave simpson
quote:
Is the O-ring capable to be restored if out of use, I wonder. I may acquire some more pucks. (Mine ones have one O-ring each, the dealer told me that’s the kind that sound the best.)
Yes and no...if you have enough pucks for rotation, leaving a badly compressed one out of rotation for a month usually restores the shape. However, that particular puck will re-compress more quickly. Pinching the O-rings and allowing them to "rest and reshape" are the only methods of restoration I know of. The single O-rings are clearly sonically superior to the double O-ring versions. Matter of fact, I've removed the second O-ring from my double O-ring ones because of the large difference in sound. Those disks that require the two-ringers to play are so compromised in sound quality--I simply don't find them enjoyable to listen to.
quote:
Still open question is what to do if the CDM4 goes blooey. What can Salisbury do and for what a price. Maybe the bad chassis can be replaced by some original CDM4 if not in the kitchen or in the next Philips service but at the next Naim dealer? I have one such chassis as reserve, it comes from a Marantz but have run not more than 100 hours.
Not sure about this Graphoman. I've heard Salisbury has enough in reserve to replace dead ones (and I believe they can repair your old one depending on circumstances), but I don't know the cost or exclusions.
The CDPS is pretty straight forward (variant of the supercap???)and indefinite repair shouldn't be a problem.
regards,
dave
P.S. You should print out a copy of Martin Payne's extensive Fraim setup guide (emailed to Martin by someone at Naim UK) and try it on your Fraim-clone. It brings about a tremendous leap in performance. I'll post something on my results this week.
Posted on: 09 November 2003 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by dave simpson:
P.S. You should print out a copy of Martin Payne's extensive Fraim setup guide (emailed to Martin by someone at Naim UK)
Dave,
all my own work, I'm afraid. Can't blame Naim for this one.
quote:
and try it on your Fraim-clone. It brings about a tremendous leap in performance. I'll post something on my results this week.
Excellent news.
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne (at) Dial.Pipex.com. Put "Naim" in the title.
Posted on: 09 November 2003 by dave simpson
Hi Martin,
Sorry for the misinformation (I misunderstood your original post)...you've done one helluva job with your research and instructions! Better yet..your techniques work!
thanks again,
dave
Sorry for the misinformation (I misunderstood your original post)...you've done one helluva job with your research and instructions! Better yet..your techniques work!
thanks again,
dave
Posted on: 10 November 2003 by Brucie
Dave - good point about not leaving the puck inside the machine. From now on it will sit outside.
Roger - Well I can certainly say your CDS1 sounds great and after having a CD3 you can imagine how much more open and musical the sound is in comparison. I hope you are enjoying your CDS3!? My choice was between a CDS1 or a CDX and most people seemed the think the CDS1 would be the better bet and the rest is history.
Peter is a very helpful dealer indeed don't you think? I live in South Africa (as he must have told you?) and all our contact was only via email. My parents live in Leicester and on my next trip there I will certianly pay a visit to Cymbiosis. He was great at orgainsing everything including the service from Naim and the air freight.
cheers
Bruce
Roger - Well I can certainly say your CDS1 sounds great and after having a CD3 you can imagine how much more open and musical the sound is in comparison. I hope you are enjoying your CDS3!? My choice was between a CDS1 or a CDX and most people seemed the think the CDS1 would be the better bet and the rest is history.
Peter is a very helpful dealer indeed don't you think? I live in South Africa (as he must have told you?) and all our contact was only via email. My parents live in Leicester and on my next trip there I will certianly pay a visit to Cymbiosis. He was great at orgainsing everything including the service from Naim and the air freight.
cheers
Bruce
Posted on: 10 November 2003 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by dave simpson:
Better yet..your techniques work!
Dave,
phew - I'd hate to have you pull your system apart for nothing.
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne (at) Dial.Pipex.com. Put "Naim" in the title.
Posted on: 10 November 2003 by graphoman
OK, I think it over.
Cheers,
graphoman
Cheers,
graphoman
Posted on: 10 November 2003 by dave simpson
quote:
phew - I'd hate to have you pull your system apart for nothing.
quote:
OK, I think it over.
LOL!! I can well understand....my back still hurts;-)
regards,
dave
Posted on: 13 November 2003 by Brucie
quote:
Originally posted by Geofiz:
For interconnects, the latest offering from Naim (the blueish-grey jacket) cable is an improvement over the grey snaic.
Geofiz,
I haven't heard about this one. Can you be a bit more precise about the cable and what it is called?
thanks
b
Posted on: 13 November 2003 by Geofiz
Who knows what the "colour" is. It is still referred to as a 5 pin DIN to DIN "grey" Snaic. The jacket on the newer cable, when compared to the old, is bluish-grey/purplish/lilac in contrast to the older "battleship grey" cable. For what it is worth, my cable has a label (NA-22) on it.
Changing the cable (if you haven't already) is a low cost and very worthwhile upgrade, extremely good VFM (in my system at least).
Cheers
Changing the cable (if you haven't already) is a low cost and very worthwhile upgrade, extremely good VFM (in my system at least).
Cheers
Posted on: 13 November 2003 by dave simpson
quote:
Who knows what the "colour" is. It is still referred to as a 5 pin DIN to DIN "grey" Snaic. The jacket on the newer cable, when compared to the old, is bluish-grey/purplish/lilac in contrast to the older "battleship grey" cable. For what it is worth, my cable has a label (NA-22) on it.
Changing the cable (if you haven't already) is a low cost and very worthwhile upgrade, extremely good VFM (in my system at least).
The label (NA-22) indicates the employee that made this particular cable. I agree the "lilac" (as dubbed by forum members) is good value, however I'm not sure if it sounds better because of a fresh set of unworn DINS involved, new materials/construction techniques or simply normal batch variation between cables.
...my two cents,
dave