What do Naimies think of Linn sound?
Posted by: kuma on 29 October 2003
Sonically how do they differ?
And don't say Naim is better.
I'm curious what's the perception of Linn sound is. ( particularly the source )
Posted on: 31 October 2003 by long-time-dead
quote:
Originally posted by Dave J:
I visited .......their (Linn) showcase store in Glasgow. What surprised me was ......... everything was on a heavy sideboard, preamp, Lingo, Linto and CD were stacked one on top of another.
Yep, I agree with that totally. When I did my dem in the Glasgow store it was exactly the same. The Naim system I listened to was "properly" set-up on racks.
And surprisingly, I preferred the Linn system which I have it at home and enjoy it greatly. (I tend to agree with Andrew Randle's comments about the sonic differences.)
I think the variety of comments on this thread have served to prove that neither manufacturer is "correct" but a lot better than the majority of products available to mankind.
ConclusionWe are a lucky bunch of people, capable of sitting at home and thoroughly enjoying the music we listen to - regardless of the equipment that we have to play it on !!
Posted on: 31 October 2003 by Bhoyo
quote:
Originally posted by sean:
I would like to hear an Akiva, so would now have to go to the Linn shop in Glasgow. This would of course be in an all Linn system which is not what I run. I don't want to buy blind so what to do?
Can't you arrange a home dem? Either that, or take your amps and speakers to the Linn dealer.
Davie
Posted on: 31 October 2003 by kuma
quote:
Originally posted by NAIMGAIM:
Geez! Imagine if Naim were sold at Neiman Marcus or Nordstrom's! That would be pretty LAME! 
I think that's cool!
Posted on: 31 October 2003 by kuma
quote:
I think the variety of comments on this thread have served to prove that neither manufacturer is "correct" but a lot better than the majority of products available to mankind.
My original thread was not to proove which house shoud is better. But curious to find out what the perception of Linn is from Naimies POV given the fact that many seem to use LP12 with Naim kit.
I do agree that for digital sources, both companies do a good job of communicating compared to many others out there.
It was just last week that I've done the direct comparison of Linn and Naim player and I found the diffrence fascinating.
Posted on: 31 October 2003 by ken c
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Davies:
....
On a recent visit to London I heard at Harrods the current top-flight Linn system of CD12, Klimax amps and active Kmori (I think) speakers. This time the system was out in the main display area. It was like £90000 worth of Amstrad.
same here ... i was with my daughter when we happened upon the said system -- and she was surprised that such an expensive system can sound so bad. it was VERY BAD. i have heard the same system twice in the same place producing horrible sounds -- no music at all. i cant even remember what was playing. pity, the speakers LOOKED good.
initially i thought the poor sound was due to poor setup -- but people are reporting the same poor performance in dealers dem rooms.
perhaps the potential clientele dont really care?
enjoy?
ken
Posted on: 01 November 2003 by JagJag
Two months ago I demoed Linn against Naim at my dealer.
My current system was Linn Classik / LK140 (for bi-Amping) / Tukan / Sizmik (Sub) and I wanted to find my next upgrade paths:
- changing the Classik for Ikemi / Kolektor
- 2nd LK140 and going aktiv
- sell my Linn stuff changing for Naim
I could compare Classik(later Ikemi/Kolektor)/LK140/Katan/Sizmik against CD5/Nait5/FC2/LK140/Sizmik (later CD5/202/200/FC2).
My opinion:
Linn had more detail and airiness. The voices were more in the background, the emphasis was on the music.
Naim was more direct (in your face), the music was presented "at a whole" (meant positivly), not analyzed. The voices were in the foreground, not the music. Voices were sizzling. Naim won the boogie factor.
All in all the differences were not that large. I liked both systems. I stayed with Linn but if I should buy a 2nd room system it might be Naim or Cyrus.
Strange enough the demo resulted in buying a LP12.
Klaus
Posted on: 01 November 2003 by kuma
quote:
Originally posted by JagJag:
I could compare Classik(later Ikemi/Kolektor)/LK140/Katan/Sizmik against CD5/Nait5/FC2/LK140/Sizmik (later CD5/202/200/FC2).
My opinion:
Linn had more detail and airiness. The voices were more in the background, the emphasis was on the music.
Naim was more direct (in your face), the music was presented "at a whole" (meant positivly), not analyzed. The voices were in the foreground, not the music. Voices were sizzling. Naim won the boogie factor.
What would have been interesting is to drop Ikemi into 202/200 system.
I don't know about CD5, but CDX2 was miles ahead in *atmospheric* department over Ikemi.
Image projection (in my system, Ikemi had a flatter earth than Naim ) and emphasis applied in different frequency are the main difference between the two it seems. I can see with the speakers with a forward outlook might tip the scale with Naim. Altho, my speakers are relatively laid-back, Ikemi boogied with good intent.
Posted on: 01 November 2003 by MichaelC
A little late picking up this thread...I changed over from Linn to Naim early this year. I compared Kairn/Klout to 102/180 (and variations on this theme). I found that although the Kairn/Klout was a big step up from my Majik-I the 102/180 combination really grabbed my attention.
The Linn combination had everything there in terms of detail, timing etc etc. The Naim combination was considerably more "forward" in terms of its presentation and that is what persuaded me to change direction.
Going back in time I demo'd a Musical Fidelity A1000 (I think - the big integrated amp) and thought that was not significantly different to the Linn. I do not have wide experience of other brands but I guess that Linn is more mainstream whereas Naim has a much more direct presentation. I guess at the end of the day it is purely down to what suits you - as clearly is demonstrated by earlier postings to this thread.
I am still happily using my LP12 and Ikemi as sources - funds permitting I wouldn't mind trying out the CDS2/XPS2 or if I win the lottery the CDS3!!!
Mike
Posted on: 03 November 2003 by hobiecat
Hi all guys,
I posted a while ago my impressions about a long term comparison between Ikemi and CDX2 in my all Linn system. These more or less correspond to what I have concluded any time I've compared the Linn vs. the Naim approach.
quote:
In brief the CDX2 is clearly fuller sounding, with a more natural rendition of voices and instruments and a bigger, more expansive and dynamic sound. The Ikemi sound more "digital" and dry, with much less body in comparison, but it is IMO much better at organizing music in a cohesive and meaningfull manner. CDX2 can often become a bit evasive and unarticulate expecially when things get complex, while Ikemi constantly keeps a tight grip on the music, always remaining positively incisive and coherent and resolving also the more difficoult passages in a right and tuneful way.
Just the opinion of a deaf linnie!
ciao,
Paolo
Posted on: 03 November 2003 by sean
Syd,
Robert Ritchie is a good friend of mine and I'm in contact with him regularly. As of three weeks ago he did not sell Linn products.
Davie,
The situation here is that the Linn shop in Glasgow is owned by Linn and sells only Linn. Somehow I don't think they would be on for someone taking a Naim system into their shop so they could hear a cartridge. DBLs are not that easy to move either. I don't know about a home dem though, I may give them a phone.
Sean.
Posted on: 03 November 2003 by kuma
quote:
Originally posted by hobiecat:
In brief the CDX2 is clearly fuller sounding, with a more natural rendition of voices and instruments and a bigger, more expansive and dynamic sound. The Ikemi sound more "digital" and dry, with much less body in comparison, but it is IMO much better at organizing music in a cohesive and meaningfull manner. CDX2 can often become a bit evasive and unarticulate expecially when things get complex, while Ikemi constantly keeps a tight grip on the music, always remaining positively incisive and coherent and resolving also the more difficoult passages in a right and tuneful way.
I agree with most of your impression.
Except, CDX2 managed to sort out music pretty good even when going gets tough.
What was striking between CDX2 and Ikemi was CDX2's ability to keep the sparsely scored music together better at low volume. Notes were blurred and became ambiguous at low level with Ikemi and I thought it lost a necessary tension to keep my interest going.
When a certain volume was mantained, Ikemi had no trouble following music with a conviction!
If only CDX2 can deliver the same degree as Ikemi's bass drilling, it would have been a heck of a player.
Guess makes us two deaf-ears.
Posted on: 04 November 2003 by sean
Alan,
I thought that Stereo Stereo and Linn had parted company. Have they? The shop I was thinking about was THE Linn shop in Princes Square shopping center (if that's the address). The owned by Linn, displayes only Linn and sells only Linn shop that is. Are there more?
I know that Stereo Stereo are not Naim dealers now. The last time I was in the shop had been taken over by B&W speakers and some German amplifier that was broken, Hey-Ho.
Sean.
Posted on: 06 November 2003 by long-time-dead
So who makes CD players ?
Posted on: 06 November 2003 by MichaelC
quote:
Originally posted by Ultra Violet:
I am open minded but modern Linn that I have heard has left me bored. The CD12 is uninspired. I would happily go listen to whatever Linn system is available ... but I dare not go listen to the CDS2 or even demo a XPS unless I have the dosh waiting....
Agreed. Although I have not heard the CD12. I am tempted to change my Keilidhs and have been thinking of looking out for some SBL's myself.
Regards
Mike
Posted on: 06 November 2003 by kuma
quote:
Originally posted by long-time-dead:
So who makes CD players ?
died-in-wool analogue lovers would probably ignore its existance, but, in a digital land water is murky.
Comparing CDX2/Ikemi, CDS3/CD12 ( I haven't had a home demo on CDS3 tho ), it become more of which flavor do you like rather than which is better. Altho, CDX2 definitely had more resolution than Ikemi in frequency extremes.
Posted on: 07 November 2003 by Laurie Saunders
IMHO Linn electronics prior tp 2000 did not cut it. A major reason for me not considering anything Linn is their diabolical after sales "customer care"
Laurie S
Posted on: 01 February 2004 by o.j.
quote:
Originally posted by Andrew Randle:
OK its now my turn to wade in.
I used to own a predominantly Naim based system (CDX/72/HiCap/110/Kans) and bought a 2nd cheaper Linn system for my flat in London (Genki/Kolektor/LK140/Katans).
Doing this brought home to me the differences between the two systems, and the fact that single-manufacturer synergy is important.
Here are the differences, I have noticed.
* Linn is the better brand at synchronising the timing between multiple musicians. Therefore Linn is far better with the boogie-factor
* Naim is better at retaining and highlighting detail.
* Both are excellent at making the tunes more singable, although Linn does beat Naim in this respect.
* Naim throws a wider sound-stage.
* Linn has a bit more airiness, but Naim has a bassier sound (which I prefer). However moving Linn speakers closer to the back wall makes it sound much bassier.
* The Linn setup in the Harrods display area is indeed dire (As was the case with the Hammersmith shows). However the same can be said for several of Naim's show demos.
My personal verdict is that when Naim beat Linn on the boogie factor, that's when I'll switch back to Naim.
Consequently I sold the Naim system and bought an LP12/Ekos/Lingo/Klyde/Linto. Even my demo between an Ekos and Aro echoed the very same differences.
Seriously guys - the gauntlet has been throw. You've addressed the looks and improved on the detail, tonality and the tunefulness of the midrange gear; but you must now focus on improving the boogie factor.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner
[This message was edited by Andrew Randle on THURSDAY 30 October 2003 at 13:53.]
Posted on: 01 February 2004 by o.j.
hy Andrew !
I totally agree what you noticed about comparing linn to naim sound.
I tried classik with new kan to find out what is typical for linn sound (also using linn speaker cable).really great great boogie factor.
but after a longertime of hearing my impression is:1.bass is a lot, very fast,and well controlled , but not so deep.
2,On the other end off freqencyband highs are there a lot but not to the highest frequencies.
3, imo point 1 and 2 are responsible to bring
my brain and ears to listen to the midfrequencies,and then i was astonished:
It seems that midband is really more informative than (nearby) all other transistorstuff i know.and this is the area where it is easy for every loudspeaker in the world to work. also the one in a cellularphone.
Vice versa:going for deeper bass and opener high frequencies are the the reasons
which destroy the boogie factor of most Hifi systems, because it is very difficult to bring
this frequencies in time with the mid band.
....for me naim equipment is one of the rare companies that had found compromiss between boogie factor and a realistic performance at the end of high and low frequencies.(Meaning nothing less than less tonal coloration.)
and this on an affordable price.
imo Fm acoustics ist the only Stuff i know
that is capable to do boogie and frequencies
perfect,but this is not affordable for me(very
expensive)and ...........they have no remote control. o.J.
Posted on: 01 February 2004 by Colin Ackerman
Hi
I cannot comment on all Linn systems but I bought a Ikemi over a CDX2 after long home dem's. I found the Ikemi to be more open with a better top end. Before buying both players were heard through a 552/500 set up to show them at there best. IMO a mix of Linn and Naim are a winning combination
.
Colin
Posted on: 01 February 2004 by kuma
quote:
Originally posted by Colin Ackerman:
I cannot comment on all Linn systems but I bought a Ikemi over a CDX2 after long home dem's. I found the Ikemi to be more open with a better top end. Before buying both players were heard through a 552/500 set up to show them at there best. IMO a mix of Linn and Naim are a winning combination .
Colin,
Was it bare CDX2 with Ikemi? If so, Ikemi sure does put up a pretty complelling argument at less cost.
Any experience with Linn Kontrol and Naim 252?
Posted on: 02 February 2004 by Top Cat
Linn systems have always left me feeling unimpressed or bored. Not much more to add. Not heard too many good Naim systems, but when Naim does its thing right it's very compelling and it's hard to look elsewhere.
In an ideal world, between Linn and Naim I'd choose top end DNM but it's far too impractical and it limits many choices. Having moved from the DNM amps (older pre, top of line power) I'm happy with my 52/SC/250 - in fact, in many ways I'm happier, though the Naim is a bit muddy in comparison.
Once all that's said and done, I'd rather listen to a Tivoli Number 1 than any modern Linn system I've yet heard. Also, I'd rather listen to the same Tivoli than live with most Naim speakers - but haven't heard NBLs yet, and DBLs only once.
John
Posted on: 02 February 2004 by Andrew L. Weekes
I had an Ikemi to play with recently and was very impressed with it, musically and ergonomically.
It has an unfortunate side effect, within a Naim system, in that it audibly degrades the entire system when it is plugged into the mains. Even with this limitation though I could hear what it was doing well. If the mains-interaction was sorted, I suspect I may have liked it even more.
I would therefore tend to agree with Andrew Randle's comments above; comparing Linn in a Naim system and vice versa may not bring reliable results, in absolute terms.
Andy.
Posted on: 02 February 2004 by Colin Ackerman
Colin,
Was it bare CDX2 with Ikemi? If so, Ikemi sure does put up a pretty complelling argument at less cost.
Any experience with Linn Kontrol and Naim 252?[/QUOTE]
kuma
Yes the CDX2 was bare. Also I have not compaired the 252 and Kontrol.
Colin
Posted on: 04 February 2004 by PJT
quote:
Originally posted by kuma:
quote:
Originally posted by hobiecat:
In brief the CDX2 is clearly fuller sounding, with a more natural rendition of voices and instruments and a bigger, more expansive and dynamic sound. The Ikemi sound more "digital" and dry, with much less body in comparison, but it is IMO much better at organizing music in a cohesive and meaningfull manner. CDX2 can often become a bit evasive and unarticulate expecially when things get complex, while Ikemi constantly keeps a tight grip on the music, always remaining positively incisive and coherent and resolving also the more difficoult passages in a right and tuneful way.
I agree with most of your impression.
Except, CDX2 managed to sort out music pretty good even when going gets tough.
What was striking between CDX2 and Ikemi was CDX2's ability to keep the sparsely scored music together better at low volume. Notes were blurred and became ambiguous at low level with Ikemi and I thought it lost a necessary tension to keep my interest going.
When a certain volume was mantained, Ikemi had no trouble following music with a conviction!
If only CDX2 can deliver the same degree as Ikemi's bass drilling, it would have been a heck of a player.
Guess makes us two deaf-ears.
I have just done the CDX2/Ikemi demo at the local dealer with my entire system - 72/Hi/250 B&W MatrixIII spkrs.
What struck me about the CDX was that it was so close in sound to my LP12/Ittok/Rohmann - not quite as good mind you but very close. Similar weight/rhythm/dynamics to the LP12, and will sit in my system very nicely. Switching to the Ikemi made the music sound so flat and lifeless. Still $9500 is a lot of bread, but just has to be done.
Posted on: 04 February 2004 by kuma
quote:
Originally posted by PJT:
I have just done the CDX2/Ikemi demo at the local dealer with my entire system - 72/Hi/250 B&W MatrixIII spkrs.
What struck me about the CDX was that it was so close in sound to my LP12/Ittok/Rohmann - not quite as good mind you but very close. Similar weight/rhythm/dynamics to the LP12, and will sit in my system very nicely. Switching to the Ikemi made the music sound so flat and lifeless. Still $9500 is a lot of bread, but just has to be done.
That must have been CDX2/XPS2 combo then.
A bare CDX2 is 5k$ unless you are talking different currency.
Interesting you thought CDX2 sounded like LP12...
A bare CDX2 was slightly more hi-fi and too midrangy in my system.
But, CDX2 is more organic and natural sounding than Ikemi. Certainly it has more personality.
[This message was edited by kuma on THURSDAY 05 February 2004 at 08:20.]
