'Bad Mains Day' or is it?

Barometric pressure has also been mentioned in the past, as has humidity.

cheers, Martin

Nightmare. The only way to get them is to have some sort of device for recording AC voltage and frequency, Even this might not cover it, but it would be a start.

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

I'd like to hear from s/cap users about their 'bad mains days' if they have them, and also about Naim's investigations/conclusions. I'm sure they and the dealers can't be happy to possibly lose sales on 'bad mains days'.

Unless you actually analyse what it is, where it came from and what the hell happened to it before it arrived at your equipment. I suspect that the average man in the street wouldn't and couldn't care less but I do sometimes wonder wether the true Hifi devotees of this world invest in and use all manner of exotic measuring equipment to examine exactly what the hell is actually being delivered to those three pin sockets.

Anyone tried an AC regeneration device from the likes of PSAudio?

P.

I can't tell if it was the supercap, as I need a source, pre-amp, power amp and speakers to hear anything!

Green Velvet "La-La-land" sounded particularly punchy.

I heard some strands in DJ Trance "Run from the Sun" I hadn't heard before.

Perhaps it was because there were no other big electrical things on such as the washing machine, heating system, computers etc.

Or it might have been because the wife was down the shops and I had it on really loud!

David

I know you were joking, but the effect of a 'bad mains day' is there loud or quiet, its just ..er louder.

My system still sounds on song today too. Maybe we could all start keeping logs to see if there is a national or regional effect

Eureka! now I have it!, this problem has nothing to do with the mains - it's whether the wife is present or not!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jez Quigley:
Maybe we could all start keeping logs to see if there is a national or regional effect

---

Actually, that sounds like a good idea.

It would be great to get to the bottom of this.

cheers, Martin

P wrote:

>Anyone tried an AC regeneration device from >the likes of PSAudio?

Yes, I use a P600 and it's an excellent investment. Firstly, there are non more 'bad mains days' and it gives you a consistent baseline for any tweaks and changes you perform. Secondly, the output impedance from the P600 is considerably less than from the wall socket. I would not be without this unit after having lived with it for a year now.

However, be aware that like all good source items it can show up deficiencies in the system and I ended up with a *major* change of speaker positioning and system supports.

Getting back to the subject of this thread, although the P600 virtually eliminates power problems, keep in mind that you should still invest in a separate earth as the P600 does nothing to the ground line. I have found that my system still blows a little hot and cold but the differences between a good and 'bad' day is now minescule compared to pre P600.

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn

So how do you guys at Naim ensure that they're not going to suffer from a bad day when doing demo's at the Hi-Fi shows... on for you Stephen?

I know that Naim advise against mains conditioners, but this appears to be different. Have Naim experimented with this kind of beast? Could it (should it?) be incorporated into the supercap? I understand that the Linn Lingo uses a similar device. If this kind of technology does end 'bad mains days' for good (I would need an extended home loan), and could be included in a Naim super-cap type product, I would go into debt, or whatever else I needed to do, to get one.

After I posted the original thread on Sunday morning I noticed that Paul S was replying to half a dozen other threads, but he ignored this one even though I asked for a Naim view. Now why is that? Care to comment on the above posts Paul?

Go to:

http://www.psaudio.com/

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn

Mark is from the USA where they use 120v 60hz, has anyone in the UK had experience of using Naim kit with the PS Audio product?

quote:

---

I was trying to encourage some new thinking about this phenomenon rather than just getting the stock replies

---

Then I think you'd better contact a Feng Shui assistant... such as Peter Belt

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Please excuse me, I'm just in the middle of folding over the corner of my mouse mat....

Anyhow, a few members have reported that it works wonders.

On Jez's point, I'm not sure Mr S should get involved in this. You see if you think about it, what you are doing with the P600 is spending $2400 to take your ac raw mains, turn it into dc, then turn it back into ac then turn it into dc again in your Naim psu. Do you see any opportunities here to cut out the middleman? You see, if Mr S said "yes, the P600 is a good thing to use" then someone might be quite justified in asking Mr S why Naim didn't design their ac to dc system properly in the first place! Or Mr S has to admit that Naim cannot design psus as well as PS Audio can. Or Mr S has to admit that Naim have cut corners on their supplies for some reason. In any case this is all disappointing for customers who seem to be finding themselves spending money rewiring their houses to overcome problems.
BAM

I wish the solution was as simple as re-wiring the house, I've done that and it was the best £150 I've spent, but I doesn't help with any shit on the mains arising before it gets to the house.

I'm a great believer in openness myself too.

Care to tell us what sort of system you own?

Can't seem to recall you mentioning what you use.

Jez

If you're really keen to know how bad your mains supply is I suggest you contact www.instruments4hire.co.uk and enquire about hiring a Sontay LM21 Power Disturbance Analyzer.

Around this time last year they would hire one for around £180 a week though if you speak nicely to them (ask to speak to Ken) they might do you a full weekend hire for £80 plus VAT and £25 delivery.

Regards

P.

No seriously, that's intriguing, can you tell me more about what the thing does, can the readings be printed out so that I could, for instance, take it around to the leccy board and hit them with it?

Jez wrote:

>Mark, what is the rest of your system, and what
>were the major changes your refer to?

Armageddon/LP12/ARO/DV-XV1/102('S' Boards)/NAPSC/Hi-Cap/250/NACA5/Credos.

The P600 gave more of everything, including PRaT but the bass extends so low and is so tight that the position of the Credos had to be changed. I'm lucky in having a dedicated listening room and I ended up using

http://www.cardas.com/insights/roomsetup.html

to help with placement. It also became obvious that my previous equipment rack was muddling things up, so I designed another (which by the way is superior, for me, to anything else I've tried by a large margin, although I haven't tried a Fraim)

>Mark is from the USA where they use 120v 60hz, has >anyone in the UK had experience of using Naim kit >with the PS Audio product?

Actually, although living in Dallas, TX I'm a transplant from London, England. The 240V version of the Power Plants have an extra transformer at the output to go from 120V to 240V. As far as I can tell from reading PS Audio's chat forums (they have 2) the only disadvantage to this is that none of the 8 power outlets are isolated from one another, whereas on the U.S. version 4 sockets are totally electrically isolated from the other 4, which is useful for digital/analogue separation.There are many UK users on the forums.

Bam wrote:

>I always get a little suspicious when I visit a
>web site where I cannot easily locate a product
>specification. Perhaps I'm inept. I wanted to know
>the basic things you'd want to know about the P600 >- voltage accuracy, phase accuracy, distortion,
>noise, impedance. All I could find was power
>and that you could dial up several different
>frquencies. Even their link to "multiwave" was
>broken. I am a believer in openness with regard to
>specs.

Unless they've removed it there should be a very detailed description of the theory and practice of the Power Plants somewhere on the site. I researched (from their site) everything you're wondering about before I dipped my toe in PS Audio's water. If you can't find it, you can ask at:

http://www.psaudio.com/account/forum/

or

http://www.AudioAsylum.com/forums/psaudio/bbs.html

Paul McGowan is 'Mr. PS Audio' and answers questions on these forums every day.

Best Regards,
Mark Dunnƒ

David

quote:

---

You see, if Mr S said "yes, the P600 is a good thing to use" then someone might be quite justified in asking Mr S why Naim didn't design their ac to dc system properly in the first place! Or Mr S has to admit that Naim cannot design psus as well as PS Audio can.

---

This is faulty logic. The PS600 is not an AC->DC power supply. It is designed to generate clean AC. It does this by transforming the AC->DC and then regenerating AC.

There is NO evidence, even if the PS600 works wonders, that you would be better off running your DC Naim kit off of the DC that the PS600 produces as a middle product. If the PS600 design was built into a Naim-Cap then you would have AC->DC->AC->DC. And while this might be better, the cost of Naim-Caps would be $$$ more than current spec.

It is also not clear whether dedicated mains -> Naim-Cap is better or equal to PS600 -> Naim-Cap. The dedicated mains solution is considerably cheaper.

- Greg

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Lots of sensible stuff you can do indoors but what comes down the line ............and what your neighbours put on is out of your control. Keeping room temp at a constant is a good idea, more mechanical than electrical though!