Vinyl Archiving to CDR & MP3 - Near Field Monitors

HiFi world have a computer audio section on the website - worth a look.

Andy.

Arye

Arye.. thanks, any info is most welcome P.S condolences for the tragedy this weekend; hope you've not personally been affected.

Any thoughts on near field monitors anyone?

Arye

I use a Marantz CD630R as part of the Hi-Fi, and create a CDRW recording of the vinyl

Take the CDRW to the computer and copy the audio to the HD as a file, not through the soundcsrd, using a modified CDFS.VXD driver.

I then use SoundForge to cut the .WAV into tracks, and de-crackle etc. when necessary and sparingly.

Then burn on to a CDR with Yahama SCSI CD rewriter.

I find this is better than a direct in through the soundcard (I have an Ego-Ssys Wami Rack 24, which is a lot better and quieter than an SB Live) The difference might be due to the difference in front ends (Hi-fi = LP12 / Ekos II / Arkiv B /Groove / 52 / S-cap) (Computer = LP12 Ittok / Arkiv A / 72 / Hi-cap)

DS

You'll find a good list of alternatives at here.

BTW Be warned that all Creative/SoundBlaster cards do their best to install as much useless and annoying software as possible on your computer whether you like it or not and the stuff is a bugger to get rid of. There's even one that defaults to connecting to the internet and downloading the latest output from the Creative marketing department (which at least explained how I was managing to use my home phone whilst at work).

Matthew

Mail to Pini - shpater@barak-online.net

Arye

The flying bovine box looks to be just what I need to improve my audio capture at a sensible price - do you know of a good place to buy it (cheap of course!).

Even on the cheapest of cheap SBLive's the S/PDIF for the CD-ROM drive can be used as an external interface, with a suitable lead.

It also looks like a tweaky product - I have a feeling it could be made to do great things with a few add-ons (PSU / clock etc.)

Please reply in time for me to write to Santa

Andy.

I haven't seen detailed or independant tests, but the improved specs seemed mainly to relate to playback. Bloody things still cannot sample any higher than 48k or 16 bit.

I'm sure the crap sound of the SBLive is due to the real-time, non-integer sample rate conversion they perform when recording (all recording is done at 48kHz, then converted, on the fly, to the desired sample rate).

Andy.

>> I haven't seen detailed or independant tests <<

Most of the ones to date by computer geeks rather than musician/studio types which are probably more reliable from this persepective.

>> I'm sure the crap sound of the SBLive is due to the real-time, non-integer sample rate conversion they perform when recording (all recording is done at 48kHz, then converted, on the fly, to the desired sample rate) <<

Others seem to beleive this is the case. The Audigy's EMU APS chip is still 48Khz so using on board DSP etc. might still cause similar problems (?). I'm assuming from what I have read that this does not apply to/effect pure sampling on the new card.

>> Even on the cheapest of cheap SBLive's the S/PDIF <<

But would it be worth using something like the Delta DIO 2496 -- a pure digitial interface only card mentioned in the aobve like -- I wonder? i.e. presuming SPDIF and cheapo digitial stages = lots of digitial natisies, jitter, etc.

Matthew

I'm coming to the same conclusion.... seems like the prefered choice... Dear Santa,......

Try this;

Audio Images
284 Glossop Road
Sheffield
S10 2HS

http://www.soundslive.co.uk/1298.htm

£159 + post = £168.40

Cheapest I've seen.... unless anybody else knows different....

Martin C; Oh to live in the good ol' US of A.... What you pay dollars for, we pay pounds....

Regards,

pm

quote:

---

But would it be worth using something like the Delta DIO 2496 -- a pure digitial interface only card mentioned in the aobve like -- I wonder? i.e. presuming SPDIF and cheapo digitial stages = lots of digitial natisies, jitter, etc.

---

Jitter is only a problem at two points in the recording chain, A-D and D-A conversion (i.e. transfer between domains). At any other point in the system it's irrelevant.

Since the data will come in digital from from the external A-D, providing it reaches the soundcard without losing it's basic integrity, and stays in the digital domain, the data on the hard drive will be 'perfect'.

Getting it back to analopgue is the challenge, plenty of scope for errors during writing, resulting in errorsw when played back.

There are some potentially massive benefits to the external A-D, it can sit close to my system, in a quieter electrical environment, I can send digital data down a long cable (suitably matched etc.) to the computer without loss (much less agro than moving LP12 or PC), and I could use it to listen to my system from the study, using the Nait and the PC. The more I think about it the more I like it!

Mr T and pm,

Thanks the price looks good and you're right the new ones seem to be 24 bit (although you'll need a good clock to realise that).

What's the analogue content of the ADC like - cheap op-amps or something better.

Should improve the resolution / noise levels of my spectrum analyzer too, the analogue stage of my latest SBLive is noisier than my previous one (I destroyed the line input in the Naim of impatient PSU testing - now have proper conditioning buffers / protection circuitry!). Fortunately SBLive's in OEM form are only 30ukp

Ta,

Andy.

What length of cable do you think could be driven from ADC to computer? I too would rather have my LP12/Naim drive the digits instead of my Thorens/Sony.

pm

I see no reason why suitable 75 ohm coaxial cable couldn't be 10's of meters long.

I'll let you know once I try it - I've ordered the flying calf in time for Xmas. I'm looking forward to it, I need to build a PSU the size of a car boot to power it now, so it doesn't look out of place next to my Naim gear

Andy.

I've just read you're original post properly and the bit about 'speakers.

Are the Goodmans Maxim's just passive with inernal amps, or truly active, with an active crossover.

I'm using a Nait1 with a pair of Goodmans Maxim 3's and they are a great little speaker. I used to run them active, in a second system with 42XO, 2x110's, but have converted them back to passive again, for Nait use.

One BIG recommendation - the original crossover was a series inductor and 4.7u bipolar electrolytic on the bass unit, with a simple 4.7u bipolar electrolytic to the tweeter.

I've changed both of the electrolytics for the polyproylene (I think) caps that Maplin sell specifically for audio 'speaker crossover use, and they've retained a lot of the active character (punchier, more detailed) in passive form.

The big problem is where to put the caps - they're bloomin' enormous!

Andy.

P.S. I've emailed midiman for advice on cable lengths - I'll post here when I've got a reply.

I recently got a Marantz DR6000 cd-recorder, which makes a damned good job of archiving vinyl. Of course, without that post-processing option, every little imperfection in the vinyl makes it onto CD, and you also have to set the track increments manually when recording from vinyl, but other than that it makes a fantastic all-round solution to vinyl archival. What's more, it's a splendid little player - perhaps not up to CD5 standards, say, but for a CD recorder it is the proverbial dog's...

Interesting to note that a good vinyl copy, played on the Clearaudio deck and archived via the DR6000 usually sounds better than the cd-version of a given album. Of course, pressing quality is the ultimate arbiter, but in general I've been impressed...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Check out the RME Digi Soundcard range. They are a German semi pro manufacturer
I use a Digi 24/96 (£300) with CoolEdit 2000 and a Plextor burner. The results when played on my CDX/XPS are as good as the originals on my Technics SL 10 maybe even better if I spend the time taking out the clicks by hand.

I really should get a P3 or an old LP12 but the Technics is soooo cool. and takes up so little space

On sample rate conversion Cool Edit does a good job, but makes my old PC grind a bit!

On another subject anyone tried the pop / declick solutions?

I used the one built into Gear Audio ( I forget whose solution it was at present) but it's the best automatic solution I've found. It had little effect on musicality, if any, but cleaned up beautifully, without user intervention.

Most of the others I've tried have been to invasive musically.

I reckon Cool Edit pro would work as well, but would require lots of tweaking I don't have time to perform.

Andy.

I also archive tapes as these have limited lives due to both gradual demagnetisation and loss of lubricant from the cassette liners. The latter causes to tapes to squeal, and eventually to wow, as they play. I also feel that the squeal comes to modulate the music the music in some way (i.e. the squeal can be heard via the 'speakers). Can any expert explain how this can occur?

The final archiving use I have found is for transferring TV concerts to CD. Chopping out the adverts is surprisingly easy. If the format of the broadcast allows, I just chop out the waveform between the start of the fade leading into the advert and the next stage announcement if there is one. If not, of course one is stuck with a post-fade in and out either side of the advert. Easy to do and well worth the effort.

Fraser

Sorry, been away working for a few days. Yes, you're right; the Goodmans are passive with the amp built into the back of one speaker. It was marketed as the "Maxamp." Thanks for the info about the crossover, sounds like a worthwhile tweak.

The amp itself is quite interesting, (or maybe not!!). It's simply a power supply with two TDA2050 "amp on a chip" IC's! The only discrete components are the few resistors and capacitors necessary to set the parameters. I found some app notes for the chip, and compared the circuit board to them, and it's a straight implementation of those notes. I had to replace one of the chips recently and that was only £2. I reckon the whole board must only be a fivers worth at wholesale rates!

After reading your comments, sounds like a better quality amp and a new crossover might give better results than new speakers.

It's arrived and results are good. Noise floor is lower than SBLive by 10dB over most of the audio band, with no nasty spiky bits from the computer internals.

Sounds good, and despite the manufacturer not recommending a cable more than 15 feet, I've run a good quality 75R satellite grade coax with brilliant results from the main system to the PC. Makes measuring stuff 'in situ' eezy peezy lemon squeezy. And listening to the LP12, fed via SPDIF to the PC then the Nait is a really enjoyable experience.

A couple of vinyl transfers later and I'm chuffed to bits, although the SBLive doesn't pass SPDIF unmolested, it's definitely better than the card alone. I might just buy a dedicated digital in, as suggested above, although I need to see if I've got a spare PCI slot - my PC's pretty packed with SCSI, sound, TV, network and modem. I can't remember if there's 5 or 6 slots!

It's a wicked dinky little box too, I'll leave tweaking it until my PSU reaches the noise floor of the measurement system, which is a fair way off yet

Andy.

1. Bridged (for more power, if you can do this with TDA2005's ?) with a passive crossover

2. Biamped with passive crossover after amp

3. Biamped (active) with passive crossover before amp

and probably not

4. Biamped with proper active crossover.

So the question is where's the crossover?

Is there a cap between amp o/p and tweeter, with an inductor (coil) between amp o/p and bass unit, with another capacitor across the bass unit?

If so it's probably option 1 or 2, and a crossover upgrade as suggested would work wonders.

Andy.

Just got back and read your post.... actually the chip is the 2050 not the 2005.

It's definitely a passive crossover. Thanks again however for the crossover tip.

The TDA2030/40/50 family seems to pop up all over the place. Even NK at HFW rated it when they used the 2050 in a project amp with a half decent split rail power supply and star earthing; comparing it favourably to more expensive commercial designs.

I have to say that I thought the Maxims sounded half decent anyway, I'm even more impressed when I know that most of the components only cost pennies with the lowest cost option of a single rail power supply. Does make you wonder about the tweakability factor....

Enthused by that project article, I've built my son a small "dual mono" amp along the same lines as a crimble present. Whether he's as enthusiastic about it as me is another question!!

Was there any particular reason you went back from active to passive on your system? It sounds as though you had quite a bit of success with it.

In the absence of NAXO's on the market, do you know of any other active crossover circuits which cut the mustard?

Good to hear about the 'Calf. You mentioned measurement being "easy peasy" now. Do you use pc based software? Thanks for letting me brain pick...

pm

I have Gateway 350Mhz Pentium II [I think] with
Intel BX [I think] motherboard with on-board
SoundBlaster Audio PCI 64V [This is from reading
system settings].

I read the post from Mark Greenword [thanks for
info Mark] stating ...

"I'm sure the crap sound of the SBLive is due to the real-time, non-integer sample rate conversion they perform when recording (all recording is done at 48kHz, then converted, on the fly, to the desired sample rate).
Correct. This is why you should always record at 48KHz using this card, then convert down to 44.1KHz using a decent sample rate converter like the one EMU provide. You'll not notice a loss in quality.".

I assume this also applies to my card. Does it ?
So if I want to use my current card I should
record at 48kHz and then convert to 44.1kHz ?
Also should I use the Linux rateconv program or
the linux sox. [I will record with Windows but
I can then process the wav files with Linux].

But I really want to know what soundcard to buy.
I just want to record to CD at 16-bit 44.1kHz. I
don't want surround-sound, sound-fonts, games
etc. In price bands what are best or should I
buy a cheap CD-recorder [e.g. Richer sounds].

I have been offered SoundBlaster-Live for US 50
but I think it's no better than what I have
[except for multi-channel].

I have read newsgroup comp.sys.ibm.soundcard.tech
but am totally confused.

Thanks

James H