Mingus - The Black Saint ...

I have always revered this album as the high point in Mingus's career. I bought it when it first came out, and have listened to it for over 38 years (yeah, I know, I'm really old). I've can never get over the sheer energy, invention, soulfulness and brilliance of this masterpiece. I can remember Jerome Richardson's soprano solo near the end of the first cut, note for note. Beautiful...Beautiful...Beautiful...Beautiful...Beautiful.

Play it at my funeral, and if they ever make a movie about me, use it as the theme song!

The black saint is wicked but i prefer 'mingus, mingus, mingus, mingus'

nice

No arguments with any of the Mingus recommendations. Love 'em all. He really seemed to have hit a high point on Impulse!. Must have been something to do with greater artistic control. In addition to "Oh Yeah", "Blues & Roots" is another Atlantic title I would rate as a must. "Moanin' " is really jaw dropping. Ditto "The Clown". "Reincarnation of A Lovebird" swings like nothing else, and the title track, in spite of the "beat-style" narration by Jean Shepherd, has some great jazz playing. Come to think of it, I kinda like the narration! Try to get the Rhino remastered versions. Alas, Rhino have never released a remastered version of "Pithecanthropus Erectus"(except on the complete Atlantic set). "Pithecanthropus Erectus" is one of the baddest, most menacing pieces of jazz ever recorded. I'd get the set, but I prefer to have each disc seperately with the (facsimile) of the original cover art. And yes, I do still have my vinyl copies, but no TT at the present!

Alas, Rhino have never released a remastered version of "Pithecanthropus Erectus" (except on the complete Atlantic set).

Peter, what about this? (After all, it's been a few years since this thread was started.) The packaging is obviously different from their "Deluxe" editions, but the page does bear the <raises an eyebrow> Rhinophonic remastering seal of approval ...

I'm just trying to figure out whether the Rhino/Atlantic box set is worth getting. Sadly, it doesn't seem to include "Pork Pie Hat", for instance, which is on the Columbia version of "Ah Um" (other tracks from that album are included, though).

Thomas

I stupidly said:

Sadly, it doesn't seem to include "Pork Pie Hat", for instance, which is on the Columbia version of "Ah Um" (other tracks from that album are included, though).

"Ah Um" is not part of the Rhino set, so no wonder "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" isn't on it. Does anyone have this box set, and if so, what do you think?

I recently got Coltrane's "Heavyweight Champion" set from Rhino and am quite pleased with it (actually, I was not just pleased but thrilled after listening to the first disc!). The tracks are presented in chronological order, though (same with the Mingus set), as opposed to the way they were originally published.

Thomas

[This message was edited by Thomas K on Sat 10 July 2004 at 12:34.]

Thomas, all of Mingus's Atlantic records are absolutely essential. Black Saint aside, this was his peak period. The Rhino remasters are excellent if you're not bothered about getting vinyl originals.

It's annoying that the Atlantic boxes of Trane, Ornette and Mingus are chronological, but they're a great way of getting hold of some of the best music of the 20th Century at a reasonable price.

-- Ian

Black Saint aside, this was his peak period.

Ian, in addition to "Saint" I also have and love "Ah Um" and "Dynasty". Anyway, thanks for encouraging me -- I just ordered the set from amazon.co.uk at a very good price: 37 quid, and postage to Germany is only 2 quid.

As concerns the "Saint" album, in contrast to some people I found it quite accessible owing to its cineastic, narrative character.

Thomas

If you want any more encouragement to spend money, while you're there throw this in your shopping basket too :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000332J/qid=1089459278/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_11_6/202-9039747-5303846

-- Ian

Ah, damn those Rhinos! I have to say, I only started listening to jazz a few years ago and I think Coleman may be a bit too heavy for my taste. What single album would be a good place to start?

Thomas

hi Thomas, Change of the Century is a good place to start. Ornette's basically a blues player, this album has some really beautiful stuff on it. I'd be surprised if you didn't like it.

-- Ian

hockman, yes the vinyl releases do the job properly, and reproduce the albums as released. Sadly, the CD sets don't. I'm not sure why they decided to make the CD versions chronological by recording date, although if somebody isn't familiar with the original albums I don't suppose it makes much difference to them. I'm just glad all this stuff is still getting released, by people who are reasonably sympathetic and attentive to it.

-- Ian

quote:

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As concerns the "Saint" album, in contrast to some people I found it quite accessible owing to its cineastic, narrative character.

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I'd agree with that - having spun it a lot this weekend. I 'got it' a lot quicker than 'Oh Yeah', but not quite as quickly as 'Ah Um'.

It's all good though.

Even better, scour the secondhand market for early vinyl pressings...

-- Ian

So I got the Rhino/Atlantic Mingus box set last week. Absolutely gorgeous music! I didn't listen to anything apart from Mingus and Coltrane for a few days -- being relatively new to jazz, not playing any pop for days is a first.

On "Passions of a Man", the chronological order is not as destructive to the original album sequences as it is with Coltrane's "Heavyweight" since Mingus' Atlantic albums were pretty much released in the same order they were recorded in and each CD covers one original album session.

The music is quite varied; interesting to note that Mingus switched to piano on CD 5 (sorry, I think that's the "Oh Yeah" session) and left bass duties to someone else who definitely sounds more conventional. What strikes me about the band is that their timing often seems on the verge of dissolving (or perhaps you could say its "sways" a bit). Although you expect them to lose it any minute, they never do -- it does convey a constant sense of tension, though.

To my ears the sound of the Mingus set is even better than that of the Coltrane one (anyone else think so?): very much an "in the studio" feel, lush, tangible, and with beautiful timbre. A rare occasion where I have to say that the round earth attributes of the recording add quite a lot to my enjoyment of the music.

Might I be ready for Ornette after all?

Thomas

[This message was edited by Thomas K on Wed 28 July 2004 at 16:34.]

hi Thomas

It's good stuff, isn't it? Glad to hear you're enjoying it.

quote:

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What strikes me about the band is that their timing often seems on the verge of dissolving (or perhaps you could say its "sways" a bit). Although you expect them to lose it any minute, they never do -- it does convey a constant sense of tension, though.

---

Very well put, I think you're exactly right.

Yes, you're ready for Ornette!

-- Ian

Finally answering Thomas K

Sorry it's taken so long to reply to your inquiry, Thomas. I moved to a new home in July, was without DSL for almost a month, and the move was a bitch. Regarding "Pithecanthropus Erectus", I bought this edition:

Amazon UK link

Since this is usually considered Mingus's first real masterpiece, and since the cover art is so cool, I put off buying the Rhino version you refer to until I could find one with the original cover art.

I also bought some original cover art Ornette Atlantics from Amazon UK. They're great. I like the original album sequence and find the sound a little better too!

Hello Peter,

Hope you're settling in OK! I actually have that version (in addition to now owning the Rhino box set, the sound of which I would think is identical to the individual Rhino cardboard digipack CDs).

If I should get really nerdy I'll compare the two -- if they sound the same you can rest assured in the knowledge that you have the best sound available (on CD) AND cool cover art ;-)

Thomas