Is the decline of high street music retailing deserved??
Posted by: Jonathan Gorse on 28 December 2006
I have spent over 20 years buying most of my music and DVD's etc from the High Street and in that time I reckon HMV probably account for the bulk of that. I have purchased around 800 LP's, around 300CD's and about 300 DVD's so I'd say at current prices that reflects an investment of some £15000-£20000.
In the week prior to Christmas both my wife and I spent well in excess of £200 on DVD's and CD's as presents so I feel I have paid my dues to the record industry. Have I ever copied a recording - yes I have and more often than not that led to me purchasing the album in due course if I liked what I heard so I could enjoy superior audio quality plus all the artwork and sleeve notes etc.
Have I ever downloaded an MP3 illegally? - well about 10 albums worth so 95% of the material on my MP3 player is rips of CD's I already own. The remaining 5% is stuff that I am experimenting with and will purchase if I like it.
Prior to Christmas I bought Eilish (my wife) Elvis 68 comeback special DVD single disk edition along with a load of other stuff in HMV. A few days later I started to wonder if I shouldn't have gone for the 3 disk deluxe version at £32.99 so I bought that at HMV and asked if I could bring one back after Xmas when I determined which version my wife wanted to keep. The assistant indicated that would be fine.
I returned to HMV today with the £33 three disk version still sealed in plastic and the receipt only to be told that they don't give refunds which astounded me (it was sealed). Eventually they got the manager who I explained the situation to and she gave me a refund somewhat grudgingly. Now to be honest as a customer who has spent over £10 grand in there am I alone in thinking I deserve better than this?? What kind of store initially refuses to exchange un-opened goods with a receipt. It's becoming as bad as PC World.
Now, to be honest I have always justified paying a bit more on the high street because I love browsing in a record store and where the premium isn't excessive that seems fair enough. I rarely return goods but have done occasionally especially when shopping with my 21 month old Daughter. On rare occasions I have had to make pretty quick decisions and picked up 2 or three disks fully expecting to maybe return one (sealed) after taking it home.
My point is that I am from a generation who I think broadly speaking still believe in buying music (I'm 37) - so precisely the type of customer who HMV ought to be working to keep but the whole experience of this is making me question whether I will continue to support the high street - at least until HMV and their ilk start to show some judgement over who they trust. Incidentally the recipt I had clearly showed I had also purchased severla other things - none of which was I returning.
Am I being unreasonable or do others resent being treated like some sort of criminal?
Incidentally I have found Woolworths the complete opposite. We have a small branch in the town where I live and I have always found them extremely good about taking the odd purchase back - as a result I'm quite a supporter of Woolworths where possible although sadly they don't always carry as wide a stock range as I would like.
Views?
Jonathan
Posted on: 28 December 2006 by ewemon
I spend in the region of £200- £300 per month on discs and every 6 month I clear out 50 discs to a secondhand shop or sell to friends. I haven't bought a disc on the High Street for at least 3 years because their prices are far too high. I can buy discs from the States new or used for £8 or less. My wife thinks I am insane.
My current collection is around about 5000 discs across a broad spectrum of music.
In returning your Elvis dvd I would say no you aren't being unreasonable. However we have partially grown to being able to return a product for a refund even though in law the shops do not have to accept it back. The first retailer to do so was M&S. They set the standard for all other retailers but good service should be about attempting to recognise the good from the bad customer and making them part of your "family".
Posted on: 28 December 2006 by Analogue
HMV at the moment have a 70% off promotion,
i'd sooner have the 2cds i ordered at the end of November for christmas presents to arrive.
No wonder HMVs shares price is dropping.
Chris N
Posted on: 28 December 2006 by Diccus62
I'm not suprised they are in decline. I rarely buy anything over the counter these days. Compare prices of the 68 Special
HereOn the other side i used the same comparison site for Star Wars movies for my son and they were by far the cheapest at £5.99 each for the 1st three (or is that the last three!)
The increase in the share of the music market the supermarkets take is also significant......... they would have taken your dvd back no questions.
Regards
Diccus
Posted on: 29 December 2006 by Rockingdoc
I'm astonished by your experience. I have always found my HMV efficient and helpful, if a bit overpriced. Do you think it was actual company policy, or just a dim holiday worker?
That said, Amazon get 99 percent of my music buying cash these days. I have found their returns system to be excellent eg; e-mailed Amazon to say recent vinyl LP a bit noisy, reply within an hour to say "new one in the post and don't bother to send the old one back".
Posted on: 29 December 2006 by andy c
I would second rockingdoc's comments re Lp's and Amazon. They send out the replacement 1st, so you have chance to compare!
I also like their dvd renta system, where they send one out, u watch it at your leisure, and then send it back - they then send the next one out on your list.
They also get most of my music purchasing cash...
...although I'm off to the states today so I wonder what in-store cd prices are like over there?!?
Posted on: 29 December 2006 by antony d
Guy's
Try the HMV website - they are based in Guernsey - don't know why? may be tax etc - but the prices are cheaper than the UK high street - first class post to home address - therefore no car use or parking charges to consider - worth a try. They are very efficient.
Posted on: 29 December 2006 by Rockingdoc
...and, I've used the Japan HMV website for a few purchases, and very good too (except I can't read the sleeve notes).
Posted on: 29 December 2006 by garyi
I rarely purchase on the highstreet now. My general run of things is to torrent it. If I like it I purchase on Amazon or eBay the originals.
I have been stung on both quality and content far to much in recent years, 1 or 2 songs and the rest total crap.
My latest one was The Long Cut, liked one of their tunes on TV, purchased it at a store it sounds awful to the max terribly compressed and unlistenable. Now I know its not worth going back to said store as its opened and they would rightly assume I have put it onto harddrive.
At least online you pay a lot less for the trouble.
On a pleasant note a FOP has opened in andover, very keenly priced and a reasonable selection.
Posted on: 29 December 2006 by garyi
Obviously my points above refer to the music industry more than the high street, however fact is the world is what it is now, and the high street needs to move on, FOP seem to have done it, HMV seem stuck in the dark ages. And regarding refunds it like every business on earth, its only as good as the floor manager running it.
Posted on: 29 December 2006 by SteveGa
quote:
Originally posted by antony d:
Guy's
Try the HMV website - they are based in Guernsey - don't know why? may be tax etc -
Under European law, retailers that operate outside the EU can sell products valued at less than £18 to customers in member states without charging VAT.
Posted on: 29 December 2006 by rupert bear
I've been buying lately from a local dealer in Stroud. He sells at full price, and has a good but not unlimited range. But, just as you guys would support proper hifi dealers rather than buy your NAP500s from an online discounter, so I like the guy who can recommend, always get the good new stuff in, and let you listen for hours on headphones in the shop (just like the booths in the old days!). HMV are horrible, I wouldn't go in there again.
In the old days, since you brought it up, most record shops were in the back of electrical (TV rentals) shops. I got my first listen to Led Zep II in a booth in Bristol Wireless...
Posted on: 30 December 2006 by Mick P
Chaps
The days of buying CD in the high street are numbered because it is grossly inefficient.
CDs are light and small and they can be stored in a warehouse very cheaply. Setting up a website to advertise them is cheap and posting them to a customer is easy and cheap.
Selling CDs from an expensive shop which is empty during the week and gushing at the week is just too expensive to compete with mail order. The logistical cost of topping up every shop is ludicrously high.
Selling LPs via a shop is also inefficient. The sellers will either work from home or a mini warehouse.
Buying music on the high street is dying and rightly so.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 30 December 2006 by Steve S1
quote:
The days of buying CD in the high street are numbered because it is grossly inefficient.
CDs are light and small and they can be stored in a warehouse very cheaply. Setting up a website to advertise them is cheap and posting them to a customer is easy and cheap.
Agreed.
You also benefit by being able to get better quality discs from Japan or the USA. Many of these sound much better than the Euro produced equivalents, particularly of US artists.
Makes me wonder if France/Austria/Holland/Germany (who make up the bulk of CDs you buy in the UK) get later generation masters.
Steve.
Posted on: 30 December 2006 by Diccus62
I think it is terribly sad that record shops ala 'High Fidelity' are disappearing at a rate of knots. Many people tho are not interested in buying from tinternet or downloading Mp3's. It would be good to see the independent retailer survive and if they do I guess they would need to do mail order too. Retailers such as Fish records seem to do ok (on the surface).
If I could choose between either not having my independent retailer or Amazon, the IR would go every time. Online for me is cheaper more efficent, wider choice and I don't have to drive there and park(time constraints)
Diccus
Posted on: 30 December 2006 by FangfossFlyer
Posted on: 30 December 2006 by Steve S1
quote:
Fish records seem to do ok (on the surface).
Groan.
Posted on: 30 December 2006 by JWM
Our local record shop is pretty good. In a mixed economy, I may get the 'back catalogue' stuff I want via the interweb, but make a point of going local for the new releases. This may cost me a few pennies more, but I like to think that diversity is good in our local high street.
He even stocks a bit of new vinyl and will get anything you want on request. This can be a help - instant, unquestioning replacement if a record arrives damaged or substandard.
To maintain his place in the high street, realising his interweb and supermarket competition, he has diversified - DVD rental (we don't have any chains, and even then his terms/prices would be competitive), accessories for musical instruments, starter guitars and gig tickets. This seems to be keeping his head above water. Thankfully.
But otherwise, big town high street record shops (around our way, anyway) seem appalling - mainly dvd, or chart, with very poor stock of stuff other than that. I won't miss these when they've gone - just a bit worried that it will be the death knell for small independents as the public increasingly forgets what it is like even to go into a record shop, even a good one.
James
Posted on: 01 January 2007 by Jonathan Gorse
It's interesting reading of your experiences and the thing that strikes me is how many of you are now shopping online whereas I still mainly purchase in stores. I will really miss the aility to leave the wife in Monsoon and bugger off for an hour in a record store thumbing through the CD's and DVD's - even if it's just HMV. As an example my last purchase (HMV again!) was the Led Zep remasters DVD - it was s spur of the moment thing as the Guildford HMV had it at £15.99 - this seemed fair value to me.
(Thankfully I didn't have the urge to bring it back!)
Happy New Year everyone and good to hear that there are still some good independents out there.
Jonathan
Posted on: 02 January 2007 by JohanR
An answer to the original question:
No, they don't deserve it.
They are declining because of the likes of Amazon and MP3 downloads. And when they sell less, they can't stock as much as before with the result that they sell less and has to have an even smaller stock. Catch 22...
The ones who will survive is the ones that offer something special, like expertese into a certain genre or cater for a special group of buyers.
JohanR
Posted on: 02 January 2007 by Rasher
I'm probably oversimplifying it, but the way I see it is that high street CD shops are for people that buy high street music; they make their money from shifting huge numbers of Robbie Williams, X-Factor acts and Girls Aloud CD's. HMV/Virgin might stock small amounts of the stuff I listen to, but they will be £12-£15 as opposed to the £5-£7 I'll pay on Amazon, usually from Caiman USA, because we no longer go there and they can't shift it. Fopp seem to have found a way to get you CD's at internet prices, but you have to go and see what they have for £3 -£5 rather than go in for something specific.
The problem for HMV or Virgin lies in the quality of the mainstream music that they rely on, and the non-ipod and non-internet customer. That narrows it to your average middle-aged non-music-lover X-Factor watcher out to buy a George Michael CD, which they will probably pick up at Asda when they do the food shopping. They have lost the plot because they don't concern themselves with providing us with the music we want to buy, they just want to shift large amounts of whatever sells, of which music is now only a small part and probably not as worthwhile to them as Playstations and Simpsons mouse mats.
I have no sympathy for them. They dumbed down and got beaten by Asda. They sold out. The real crime is that the casual music listener now thinks that there isn't any good music out there anymore because it isn't being sold to them in the shops they visit, and that's bad for all of us.
