Mana works - sometimes.

Posted by: Andrew L. Weekes on 25 June 2001

As some of you will be aware I recently bought a s/h Mana sound frame, with the intention of placing it under my LP12, and as an introduction the the Mana effect.

I decided first though to try it under my CD5, as this involved a lot less faffing around to try it out.

Installation was easy, following the JW instructions I found, and first impressions were dramatic. It sounded as though an octave had been added to each end of the spectrum, and there was an extra sense of dynamics and subtlety also, in terms of low level detail retrieval.

Things were not all well though, and I had a nagging doubt that the music was less coherent, as if the Hi-Fi improvements noticed were at the expense of rythmic flow and general tunefullness.

I received this week a load of Antonio Forcione back catalogue, along with 'Foo Foo and the Boy' (all part of the barbie preparation!), but listening to the new arrivals things weren't right. The tracks that I was familiar with from the Antonio 'Live' album just weren't working in the studio, and it often sounded as though the musicians had recorded without listening to other band members - very disjointed. 'Acoustic Revenge' being a perfect example, the studio version has a different feel to it, but on Mana it just became difficult to follow. Repeatedly tracks I played gave me a sense of unease, to the point where my attention was constantly wandering.

I decided then to remove the Mana, since a backwards step is often much more obvious than a forward one, and the analogue LP12 side of things has been working so well recently, after improving the Prefix PSU, I thought my dissatisfaction may be as a result of the chasm that had been opened here.

At the same time I decided to put the Mana under the LP12.

Playing the Antonio and things were immediately and obviously better. We had a proper band, with decent musicians again, and I have no doubt that the CD5 will be staying firmly put on my Target rack, until such point as I can afford something much better.

The upside is the effect of the sound frame on the LP12 is wholly positive, the Hi-Fi benefits are still there, but there is a sense of rythmic cohesion and flow that can leave one breathless at times. Fast basslines and complex ryhtms can be followed in intricate detail (Skunk Anansie's 'Stoosh' is a killer album for this) and I'm definitely impressed, without any negative feelings whatsoever.

The system has stood the test of time in it's current state so I have no fears about passing on my experiences.

Of what relevance they are to anyone else is for you to decide, but I would say that it's very easy, even as a flat-earther, to get sucked into the Hi-Fi side, when a simple tune test reveals so much more.

In fact I have a much higher opinion of this particular test now, trying to hum along to some of the tracks I'd been listening to had been impossibly difficult, now it's child's play!

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes

Posted on: 25 June 2001 by JohnS

Since I just ordered a four shelf for the 62/Supercap/250/FlatCap, however its going to be easy to stick it under the CD3.5 or the LP12 and see what gives.

Posted on: 27 June 2001 by Andrew L. Weekes

I see this upgradeable stand argument now, I just didn't realise it was compulsory

Seriously though, it's more a case of seriously out of tune music, rather than anything else. The sound frame works superbly under the LP12, but I'm afraid it's effect under the CD5 is something I do not like at all - all Hi-Fi special effects - no music.

Are these the differences that the sound stage brings, and will it work with my Target stand?

I'm not in a position to replace the Target stand, the sound frame was an inexpensive way to try the mana effect and I'm impressed with it's effect on the LP12. I'm more than happy to leave the system in it's current state, the CD5 sounds great on the Target stand, using replacement MDF shelves, suitably spiked.

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes

Posted on: 27 June 2001 by Rico

Soundstages work under Mana racks. Results under other racks will vary wildly - I tried a soundstage or two under an old soundorg and things were f%#cked up completely.

If you want to really try out the Mana sound, get a rack, install and tune it. The install a soundstage under it, and see if you like what that does.

PS - interesting write-up, Andrew!

Rico - all your base are belong to us.

Posted on: 27 June 2001 by bob atherton

Andrew,

This is pretty much what I found with Mana, though your experiences were a bit more polarized. Under my LP12 it was a no brainer, under my Roksan CD player it was OK but not a spectacular improvement & under my pre amp I didn't like it at all.

It seems that there is a synergy & magic with the LP12 Mana combo, but beyond that the mileage does seem to vary.

Bob.

Posted on: 27 June 2001 by ken c

hi guys,

so for lp12, what, in your experience, is best. sound table, or reference table, or reference with at least one sound stage?? i hope i am using the right terms as i am not too familiar with all the terminology.

i seem to recall that both chris koster and dave dever in nana land preferred the sound table without any bells and whistles. not that i would take this as gospel, but what experience has other mana owners had with lp12's?

answers like "just get it" are not very useful -- yes i intend to get something, i just need to make sure my first stab has the best chance of succeeding.

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 27 June 2001 by JRHardee

Andy--Where was your LP-12 prior to putting it on the Mana?

Posted on: 27 June 2001 by Andrew L. Weekes

quote:
Where was your LP-12 prior to putting it on the Mana?

A few inches lower than where it is now

It sat upon a Target wall shelf, the sound frame is on that.

The standard board supplied with the Target has been replaced with one I bought from HiFi Review, years ago. It's still the best MDF board I've heard to date, on any of the stands I've used it with. I used to use an Origin Live floor stand, which I still have in a cupboard somewhere, but it leaves my LP12 within my 2 yr. old sons reach

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes

Posted on: 27 June 2001 by Rob Doorack

Andrew, I recently did a review for "Listener" of a bunch of isolation devices tested on a Target rack. I used a CD3.5 as test subject. Until you can replace the Target rack the very best thing you can do is to replace the Target's top shelf with a Neuance shelf. Putting 3 Symposium Acoustics Couplers between the CD player and Neuance shelf gave better results than the stock feet. Neuance shelves

Posted on: 27 June 2001 by Andrew L. Weekes

Thanks for the info, I have a feeling the NANA guys mentioned these recently - not sure of the cost, I'll take a look. I'd really like to save for a Fraim though

The CD5 is not on the top shelf, as my wall shelf is directly above this, and placing the CD player on the top puts the CD5's transformer directly below the Prefix in my LP12. Despite there being a reasonable seperation, the Prefix (or arm wiring?) picks up hum.

For this reason the pre' is on the top.

All lower shelves are on spikes (actually cones) though, unlike the stock stand. The lower shelves actually sound better than the top one, and I believe this may be due to the blunt spikes Target use on the top shelf (they actually machine them with a flat on the end!), although I've yet to prove it. I also believe the corner location of the cones for the lower shelves may provide better stability too.

Even ignoring the impact on the LP12, I found the system to sound much better the way I have it, which I have to say is counter-intuitive.

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes

Posted on: 27 June 2001 by Rob Doorack

No, I haven't compared the two. It just didn't occur to my coauthor and I when we assembled the various shelves and feet for our group review. It's a good idea, though, and one I'll save for the future.