Another big chunk of our rights gone.

I blame Mr Brown myself.

He is supposed to be in charge isn't he?

Will anyone here defend the man?

He is probably the most dangerous politician to have reached high office in the UK, and is presiding over an administration that appears to be moving precisely parallel to what the Nazis achieved in Germany in 1933. I am not suggesting Mr Brown is a Nazi, but he so clueless that he may yet allow a Police state to occur on his watch because he is too concerned with fine detail to see the big picture. I doubt if we have had a more stupid or more dangerous leader in the entire period of democracy in the the UK, and due to our arcane constitution not one of us took part in an election that helped him into No 10. Really he is enough for us to make sure no such thing could ever happen again by making a general election essential if the proposed Deputy Prime Minister is not the successor, enshrined in the constitution. He is and was unelectable, and yet we are living the consequences of a behind the doors deal between him and the Artful Dodger, Mr Tony Blair. What a shower!

Terrible, terrible.

I wish Mr David Davis [Conservative] would speak up a bit more.

I wished he had been elected Conservative Leader, and I still prefer him to PR Man Cameron.

ATB from George

Last week people complained that being photographed in a public place by a CCTV camera was an infringement of civil liberties. Man with camera, evil fascist.

This week. Man with camera is exercising right to photograph in public. Man protesting about being photographed, evil fascist.

Notice the word could in “could be deemed a criminal offence”

And some Police certainly equate "can" with "will."

There is a difference between Police, or State opperated CCTV, and journos or members of the public taking photos. A free press is certainly guarantee of the health of our democracy.

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
I wish Mr David Davis [Conservative] would speak up a bit more.

"Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding."

and

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

You might well be right ...

I don't know about your security cameras over there. Our average store or bank camera seems to give very poor images. How can the investigators trace a gray blurry blob that robs a convenience store?

Often I see bank holdups and they have hats and sunglasses on and only a couple strange frames of them . I'm sure the police have better info and techniques.

Justin Tallis, a freelance, said although legislation did not necessarily mention photographers, they were often targeted. "I moved to London six months ago and it's already happened to me two or three times."

Surely, he'd remember whether it was 2 or 3?

Fatcat wrote:

"Notice the word could in “could be deemed a criminal offence”"

I replied:

"And some Police certainly equate "can" with "will.""

"There is a difference between Police, or State opperated CCTV, and journos or members of the public taking photos. A free press is certainly guarantee of the health of our democracy."

Just posted with a view to bringing the debate back to the issue in hand, rather than discussing polical personalities ...

ATB frm George

quote:

Originally posted by 555:
Ministers 'using fear of terror'

LOL

Quoting the former head of M15.


I thought M15 was on your list of phobias.

I may be paranoid, but I think MI5 might just be on a significant list of phobias about an encroaching Police State.

As some have said, if your innocent then there is nothing to be paranoid about, except that one does not about the accuracy and quality of the information being secretly stored.

What would happen if they had me down as a rabid anti- "Socialist!" And then we had a suspension of democracy and a non-democratic "Socialist" dictaorship. They might just lock me up without due process, in the interest of general society - and then you would never hear from me again ... This kind of thing characterises Police states, be it the old East Germany or many others ...

Oh dear ... that did not work ... you would all be cheering!

ATb from George

George

It may be a good idea to start criticising the actions of a few extreme right wing governments, instead of picking on East Gernany.

I’m sure attitude towards East Gernany has not gone unnoticed.

Dear Fatcat,

My view of the Political spectrum runs something like this, starting at noon on the clock:

Between noon and 3, represents the Black political stripe, the Fascists, and so on.

Between three and four are the extreme conservatives, who privately at least may well be racists, and have no truck with a truly respectful view of people who disagree with them. Maybe not democrats, but working within the democratic system. They would continue to work in a Fascist State. Between four and five come the hardline Conservatives, who respect democracy, but are hardly part of the caring conservative conscensus. Between three and six may be seen as being of the blue political stripe.

Between five and six come a variety of people, from the liberalish conservatives, and conservativish liberals.

Between six and seven we enter the left hand side of politics and the clock face, which soft socialists, most liberals, and in fact some old fashioned conservatives, at least in certain aspects of their views. Basically having passed through the blue section [3 to 6 on the clock] we are now in the pinkish area.

Passed seven before eight we are into fairly hardline red labour territory, people who respect democracy, and who respect their blue and pink collegues.

After eight but before nine we have labour people more in line with the Militant Tendency, and people who would continue to thrive in a non-democratic sense. Not necessarily democratic minded people, but still working within the democratic system.

Between 9 and 12 we get into the socialist and communist dictatorial situation, where elections are shameless sham, and the Party rules, with varying degrees of monstrosity as with the Fascists.

It may be clear that I see more similarilties between communists and fascist than between either and any other other politcal section, except perhaps a few extreme left-wingers or right-wingers, working within the democratic process who may not be whole heartedly democratic. In a democracy these people can be the most dangerous - having an air of respectability, they can be a Trojan horse for something much less less pleasant. ...


I think it is fair to say I prefer my politicians to be at least in the bottom third of the clock face, whether left ot right wing!

ATB fom George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
I think it is fair to say I prefer my politicians to be at least in the bottom third of the clock face, whether left ot right wing!

ATB fom George

Most sensible people in this country would agree with you. That is why the vast majority of MP’s fall into this category. Non of them would want to turn the country into a right/left wing dictatorship. Its quite amusing that anybody thinks they are capable of doing so. The term piss up in a brewery springs to mind.
The problem lies with the media scare mongering and spreading misinformation.

Paragraph from the Mail online.

Rimington, who left MI5 in 1996 and now writes spy thrillers, is increasingly concerned by the balance between security and civil liberties. She is worried that the Government response to the terror threat has been to build up the security and intelligence services so that we might bring about a British version of the East German secret police, the Stasi.

Most people would find this worrying. Anybody with a phobia of the Stasi, would dive under the bed clothes, probably sporting a stiffy.


However her actual quotation indicates her fear that our intelligence services will get bogged down with paperwork


"Governments tend to want to create new bureaucracies every time something happens. People talk about increasing the size of the security service and intelligence service, but there is a limit to how large you can make these organisations. Make them too large and you end up like East Germany where you had the Stasi, with so much information that it couldn't cope with it. Or the KGB in Russia. Intelligence services can strangle themselves with the amount of information they have”

quote:

The problem lies with the media scare mongering and spreading misinformation.

The same was said as justification for terminating the free press by the Nazis in 1930's Germany pratcat.

quote:

My view of the Political spectrum runs something like this, starting at noon on the clock:

Between noon and 3, represents the Black political stripe, the Fascists, and so on.

Anyone willing to find out where they stand, just take the test
http://www.politicalcompass.org/index

Who'd have thought it me and Ghandi together!

As far left as Stalin and twice as libertarian as Ghandi.
If the country was ruled by me you'd love it !
OR ELSE !

quote:

Originally posted by 555:

quote:

The problem lies with the media scare mongering and spreading misinformation.

The same was said as justification for terminating the free press by the Nazis in 1930's Germany pratcat.

Classic

Don’t you realise the nazi’s where scare mongering and spreading misinformation in doing so.


Scare mongering and spreading misinformation is difficult to stop in this day and age, after all to do so would be restricting the freedom of the perpetrator.

It’s a sad fact that a lot of the population believes everything they read or hear. It’s a worrying fact that they are mainly of below average intelligence and therefore easily led.


Quote

“There is now a worrying fusion of information and entertainment.”

Strongly agree. This will become a major problem.

hear here - were are they over their etc etc etc

Unfortunately I find that I cannot read phonetically and actually look at the word spelling and I find the "were where hear here there their" issue most distracting.

Adam seems to be removing chunks of this thread apparently for no good reason.
Could this be his ironic comment on the subject?
Would our favourite Naim not so secret police officer care to explain?

hi everybody!

great but worrying thread!

PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! Everybody educate themselves & visit INFOWARS.COM or PRISONPLANET.COM

AMAZING INFO!! DOWNLOAD FREE VIDS/DOCUMENTARIES

try & research the BILDERBERG GROUP!!! CFR & TRILATERAL GROUPS!
BROWN IS JUST A PUPPET & PART OF THE LEFT/RIGHT PARADIGM!!
SAY NO TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER!!
THIS IS NOT JUST A UK PROBLEM!! ITS A DELIBERATE SLOW STRANGULATION OF ALL OUR RIGHTS & WAY OF LIFE!!

I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR REPLIES!!

quote:

Originally posted by 555:
Would our favourite Naim not so secret police officer care to explain?

Yes - you and fatcat taking little pokes at each.

Take it outside if you can't leave each other alone.

I looked, but I can't see a 'no poking' rule.
Nice touch taking inconsistent little pokes out of the thread Adam.