Bikes again, racers
Posted by: garyi on 08 January 2004
guys I have been recently interested (new year and all that) in purchasing a bike.
I feel that throwing money at gadgets which enable me to sit on my arse more is gradually doing me no favours.
The distinct lack of off road in the area and the fact I already have a mountain bike is making me more and more interested in a racer.
I used to have a racer (cheap) and did enjoy it a lot, so I want one again.
Thing is budget is tight, no more than 500 quid, can anyone recommend anything to me, either web or shop.
Cheers
I feel that throwing money at gadgets which enable me to sit on my arse more is gradually doing me no favours.
The distinct lack of off road in the area and the fact I already have a mountain bike is making me more and more interested in a racer.
I used to have a racer (cheap) and did enjoy it a lot, so I want one again.
Thing is budget is tight, no more than 500 quid, can anyone recommend anything to me, either web or shop.
Cheers
Posted on: 08 January 2004 by Steve G
I've just bought a Giant OCR 3T for £339 in the sales at Edinburgh Bicycle Co-Op. It's a compact framed racer style bike with STi shifters and a triple mech.
£500 would get a very nice bike 2nd hand plus there are a few decent tourers available in that price bracket.
Regards
Steve
£500 would get a very nice bike 2nd hand plus there are a few decent tourers available in that price bracket.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 08 January 2004 by garyi
Cheers Steve I'll look into that one.
Posted on: 08 January 2004 by garyi
I have been looking at this website, towards the bottom are some bikes for under 500, could anyone tell me anything about them!
I only really know the name shimano, so the specs of some of these means nothing to me.
I like the look of the cludebutler one at that price, but mabye this brand is not so great?
http://www.factorydirectbikes.com/products.php?plid=1/0/6/0
I only really know the name shimano, so the specs of some of these means nothing to me.
I like the look of the cludebutler one at that price, but mabye this brand is not so great?
http://www.factorydirectbikes.com/products.php?plid=1/0/6/0
Posted on: 08 January 2004 by Tim Jones
gary -
The Orbeas are OK - the expensive ones have a good rep and I've seen some good reviews of their 'cheaper' frames, such as the (steel) Marmolada.
If you could stretch another £49 the Orbea Aspin looks nice. The cheapo Campagnolo stuff tends to be better than the cheaper Shimano stuff. Plus that looks like a triple, which means you will be able to climb steeper hills and take it easier to begin with. Looks like it has proper (clipless) pedals too.
I'd wait and save a bit more. Or have a look in the back of the cycle mags for good second hand deals in your size, or on shop sites such as www.sigmasport.co.uk. They have a good bargain and second hand section.
Tim
The Orbeas are OK - the expensive ones have a good rep and I've seen some good reviews of their 'cheaper' frames, such as the (steel) Marmolada.
If you could stretch another £49 the Orbea Aspin looks nice. The cheapo Campagnolo stuff tends to be better than the cheaper Shimano stuff. Plus that looks like a triple, which means you will be able to climb steeper hills and take it easier to begin with. Looks like it has proper (clipless) pedals too.
I'd wait and save a bit more. Or have a look in the back of the cycle mags for good second hand deals in your size, or on shop sites such as www.sigmasport.co.uk. They have a good bargain and second hand section.
Tim
Posted on: 09 January 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Rodika63:
The most important step is once you have the bike, search around for your nearest road cycle club and have a ride out with them to see what you think.
Be careful which club you choose though. My local one thinks a beginners ride covers 60 miles in under 4 hours...
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 09 January 2004 by Laurie Saunders
Gary..do you want a racer (aka road bike) or a tourer?
I have a number of frames and bikes, some tourer and some road bikes. There are different levels of "sportiness"
A really highly tuned road bike is too highly strung for general daily use, IMHO
Judging from what you say, in all probability a "sports tourer" will probably fit the bill...light and taut enough for good acceleration and crisp handling, yet relaxed enough for for lengthy journeys/commuting. You need to choose carefully the frame angles, frame material, gear ratios etc
Best go to a reputable dealer, and try to lay your hands on some of the excellent books out there
For allround cycling, I use a 25 inch 531 brazed touring frame, with 40/52 front spockets and 14/28 rear spockets.....these gear ratios are somewhat wider than true racers, but I find them ok for everday use
Aluminium is now in vogue for frames....I believe that ally is rather stiff...some like that.I personally love the spring of 531....I am currently having a new frame built for me, you should consider doing the same...it is not as expensive as you might think, and a frame that "fits like a glove" really "disappears" when you ride it and feels like an extension of you own body...most "off the shelf" frames are often a compromise and can lead to aches and pains in places you never even knew existed
It will cost you more to have a bike built to your own spec but IMHO it is well worth the extra
The key before spending any money, is to do some homework. A bike that suits you is a dream to ride. One that doesn`t will gather dust/rust at the back of the garage
Laurie S
I have a number of frames and bikes, some tourer and some road bikes. There are different levels of "sportiness"
A really highly tuned road bike is too highly strung for general daily use, IMHO
Judging from what you say, in all probability a "sports tourer" will probably fit the bill...light and taut enough for good acceleration and crisp handling, yet relaxed enough for for lengthy journeys/commuting. You need to choose carefully the frame angles, frame material, gear ratios etc
Best go to a reputable dealer, and try to lay your hands on some of the excellent books out there
For allround cycling, I use a 25 inch 531 brazed touring frame, with 40/52 front spockets and 14/28 rear spockets.....these gear ratios are somewhat wider than true racers, but I find them ok for everday use
Aluminium is now in vogue for frames....I believe that ally is rather stiff...some like that.I personally love the spring of 531....I am currently having a new frame built for me, you should consider doing the same...it is not as expensive as you might think, and a frame that "fits like a glove" really "disappears" when you ride it and feels like an extension of you own body...most "off the shelf" frames are often a compromise and can lead to aches and pains in places you never even knew existed
It will cost you more to have a bike built to your own spec but IMHO it is well worth the extra
The key before spending any money, is to do some homework. A bike that suits you is a dream to ride. One that doesn`t will gather dust/rust at the back of the garage
Laurie S
Posted on: 09 January 2004 by Dan M
Gary,
If CO is anything to go by, Steve is right -- racing club rides
often end up as pain fests where large egos think its fun to
'put the hurt' on beginners. I'm not sure if there's the same
distinction there, but you might be better off with a touring club.
These rides are less intense, but often quite long, with several
rides for different levels of fitness. Once you've got a good
mileage base, then I'd show up for a racing club ride, where you'll
learn how to ride in a pack.
I'm not sure what an inexpensive gruppo would run (Steve??), but
I like the looks of this frame:
GB cycles training frame
It's steel and so more comfortable and will last longer than Al. It has bosses
mudguards and racks, so you could commute or tour on it. It might even take
some small knobbie cyclocross tires - in which case you could go out for
some easy singletrack. Going from the frame up will allow you to have
a custom bike tailored for you.
Dont make the mistake of grabbing a good deal on a bike that doesnt fit.
It may be that paying a little more or getting a little less from a reputable
dealer is the best policy for a first road bike (hmmm, where have I heard
that advice before... seems to work for audio too).
Have fun, and let me know how you get on...
Dan
p.s. ahh, I see Laurie is thinking along the same lines, but I'd
wait a little before getting a custom frame. A good shop will
probably find a good fit within the standard frame sizes and will
change out your stem for free to achieve your right position.
You will find that the more you ride, your postion will change.
Typically you'll be less upright and more aerodynamic. Less weight
will be on the saddle an more on feet/bars. So, getting a custom
frame right off may be premature.
[This message was edited by Dan M on FRIDAY 09 January 2004 at 16:35.]
If CO is anything to go by, Steve is right -- racing club rides
often end up as pain fests where large egos think its fun to
'put the hurt' on beginners. I'm not sure if there's the same
distinction there, but you might be better off with a touring club.
These rides are less intense, but often quite long, with several
rides for different levels of fitness. Once you've got a good
mileage base, then I'd show up for a racing club ride, where you'll
learn how to ride in a pack.
I'm not sure what an inexpensive gruppo would run (Steve??), but
I like the looks of this frame:
GB cycles training frame
It's steel and so more comfortable and will last longer than Al. It has bosses
mudguards and racks, so you could commute or tour on it. It might even take
some small knobbie cyclocross tires - in which case you could go out for
some easy singletrack. Going from the frame up will allow you to have
a custom bike tailored for you.
Dont make the mistake of grabbing a good deal on a bike that doesnt fit.
It may be that paying a little more or getting a little less from a reputable
dealer is the best policy for a first road bike (hmmm, where have I heard
that advice before... seems to work for audio too).
Have fun, and let me know how you get on...
Dan
p.s. ahh, I see Laurie is thinking along the same lines, but I'd
wait a little before getting a custom frame. A good shop will
probably find a good fit within the standard frame sizes and will
change out your stem for free to achieve your right position.
You will find that the more you ride, your postion will change.
Typically you'll be less upright and more aerodynamic. Less weight
will be on the saddle an more on feet/bars. So, getting a custom
frame right off may be premature.
[This message was edited by Dan M on FRIDAY 09 January 2004 at 16:35.]
Posted on: 09 January 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Dan M:
I'm not sure what an inexpensive gruppo would run (Steve)
The bike I've just bought has a 24-speed Shimano Sora setup, but given the choice I'd go for the Campagnalo Xenon 9-speed one which should be available for about £150 plus wheels. Tourers often seem to use MTB components in which case Deore is fine but LX or XT would be nice.
BTW I know this not because I know much about road bikes but because, like Gary, I was looking for a road bike recently!
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 11 January 2004 by Steve G
Picked my new bike up today:
Quite impressed for £339 new.
Regards
Steve
Quite impressed for £339 new.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 11 January 2004 by garyi
Steve could you tell me how it goes, I was looking at one of those this weekend, and have been intimidated by the above comments of joining road clubs etc, I just want to ride a nice bike once in a while!
Posted on: 11 January 2004 by John Sheridan
quote:
Originally posted by garyi:
Steve could you tell me how it goes, I was looking at one of those this weekend, and have been intimidated by the above comments of joining road clubs etc, I just want to ride a nice bike once in a while!
Gary, don't worry, not all road clubs are evil. I'm a member of Addiscombe - The Agreeables - and they offer something for everyone from beginners up to World Champions (yes, we have one of them), both on-road and off.
Posted on: 11 January 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by garyi:
Steve could you tell me how it goes, I was looking at one of those this weekend, and have been intimidated by the above comments of joining road clubs etc, I just want to ride a nice bike once in a while!
Will do. I'm not a club member either and don't have any real intention of joining one soon. My reasons for getting a road bike are to help with my fitness (for MTBing and hillwalking) and to tick off a few things I want to do (50 mile day, 100 mile weekend, 100 mile day etc.)
I haven't done any more than set the bike up yet as I was off mountain biking at Glentress today. I might take it out for a night ride tomorrow though.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Laurie Saunders
Gary...just remember it is the frame that is all important...all other parts should be regarded as "consumables"
You must get the frame right......no amount of "shiny bits" will make a "silk purse...."
Laurie S
You must get the frame right......no amount of "shiny bits" will make a "silk purse...."
Laurie S
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Rodika63:
Don't be put off by the comments about apparently sadistic road club members. The negative comments do not appear to have been written by those with any experience of club riding.
In my case I looked into joining a club but unfortunately they didn't cater well for unfit beginners like me. Their least strenous group was for beginners/recovery riders but it usually did 60 miles and planned on an average speed of 15mph. That club seems mostly interested in racing and unfortunately I haven't managed to find a more appropriate club in the area so far.
I don't really mind however, as I'm quite happy ambling along at my own slow pace.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Rodika63:
You would be surprised to find that in a group, in reasonable weather, on reasonable terrain, 15mph is really very achievable. I recon that 15mph in a group is about the same effort as 13-14mph on your own.
Oh I'm fairly sure I could do it but I'm totally certain I wouldn't enjoy it, and that I'd be too tired to walk for a few days.
I don't particularily like riding in a big group anyway, especially as some of the roadie groups I see on the road ride like a bunch of twats anyway.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Bruce Woodhouse
C'mon Steve. You cycle 2-3 x week on your MTB and 50 miles at a modest pace on a road bike is probably less knackering than 2 hrs in the mud!
I now what you mean about roadies though. Only two trips I had with a local club was dominated by machismo and an obsession with kit. None of the joy of riding through the countryside. They also rode in great bunches with little consideration for other road users and almost enjoyed holding up drivers so that they could slag them off for being 'bad drivers'.
Bruce
I now what you mean about roadies though. Only two trips I had with a local club was dominated by machismo and an obsession with kit. None of the joy of riding through the countryside. They also rode in great bunches with little consideration for other road users and almost enjoyed holding up drivers so that they could slag them off for being 'bad drivers'.
Bruce
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Woodhouse:
C'mon Steve. You cycle 2-3 x week on your MTB and 50 miles at a modest pace on a road bike is probably less knackering than 2 hrs in the mud!
Possibly true but there are a few reasons why riding with a big road group doesn't appeal:
1) I don't want to shave my legs
2) I look awful in lycra
3) I like to stop when I feel like it and if I pass a place of interest
quote:
I now what you mean about roadies though. Only two trips I had with a local club was dominated by machismo and an obsession with kit. None of the joy of riding through the countryside. They also rode in great bunches with little consideration for other road users and almost enjoyed holding up drivers so that they could slag them off for being 'bad drivers'.
That's pretty much my impression of some of the groups I've seen.
I don't mind the idea of doing 50 to 60 mile runs and a 15mph average (excluding stops!) on a road bike is fine. I'd just spend the whole day doing it though - stopping at the occasional cafe or pub for lunch, investigating any museums or interesting architecture on the way etc.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Bruce Woodhouse
Sounds good to me.
Bruce
Bruce
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Dan M
Steve,
Nice looking ride!
Rodika63,
re-read my post -- it starts with 'If CO is anything to go by.' Also, I drew a distinction between racing and touring clubs. How do you know what my experience is? I stand by my advice, based on my racing club riding experience. Gary's much better off with a touring club to develop a base fitness, before moving to a racing club. It's no fun being OTB in the first 20 minutes of a ride, pushing yourself too hard to begin with, and being yelled at for gapping, taking a bad line etc. There's a group ride here, that often covers 80+ miles and a few thousand feet of climbing at 20+mph average. The remants of the original pack are strewn across the county. Road racing in CO is incredibly competive - clubs are not 'open', and typically you'll need to have experience to get on one. A cat 4 or 5 race will draw 150+ riders. Want to cat up? Good luck, unless you place top 10 in several of those races. Cat 5 races are called "crash 5" races for obvious reasons.
For someone who hasnt been on a 'racer' in a while, I see nothing wrong with the advice of finding a good local touring club.
Laurie,
Absolutely right, Gary should avoid a web purchase, and get fitted at a proper shop.
cheers
Dan
Nice looking ride!
Rodika63,
quote:
The negative comments do not appear to have been written by those with any experience of club riding.
re-read my post -- it starts with 'If CO is anything to go by.' Also, I drew a distinction between racing and touring clubs. How do you know what my experience is? I stand by my advice, based on my racing club riding experience. Gary's much better off with a touring club to develop a base fitness, before moving to a racing club. It's no fun being OTB in the first 20 minutes of a ride, pushing yourself too hard to begin with, and being yelled at for gapping, taking a bad line etc. There's a group ride here, that often covers 80+ miles and a few thousand feet of climbing at 20+mph average. The remants of the original pack are strewn across the county. Road racing in CO is incredibly competive - clubs are not 'open', and typically you'll need to have experience to get on one. A cat 4 or 5 race will draw 150+ riders. Want to cat up? Good luck, unless you place top 10 in several of those races. Cat 5 races are called "crash 5" races for obvious reasons.
For someone who hasnt been on a 'racer' in a while, I see nothing wrong with the advice of finding a good local touring club.
Laurie,
quote:
You must get the frame right......no amount of "shiny bits" will make a "silk purse...."
Absolutely right, Gary should avoid a web purchase, and get fitted at a proper shop.
cheers
Dan
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Dan M:
I stand by my advice, based on my racing club riding experience. Gary's much better off with a touring club to develop a base fitness, before moving to a racing club.
Even a touring club might be quite a step for someone new to road cycling. I've been considering joining the CTC Lothians group and the description of their rides:
Saturday runs: 60/70 miles in summer, 50 miles at other times of the year.
Sunday runs: 1st Sunday up to 70 miles, 3rd Sunday easier, others dependent on who turns up.
Tuesday Evenings (only in Summer): Easy to intermediate, average 20-30 miles.
I might wait until summer to give the Tuesday evening ride a go but the other rides are also quite long for a beginner. Their easy to intermediate group will typically do 50-60 miles on a day run which, unless you're reasonably fit and cycling regularily, is still quite a lot.
I'm not sure what Garys current fitness level is like but if he's not been cycling much it could be a while before he'd be comfortable doing any of this groups runs. I've been cycling (mainly MTBing) quite a lot for a few months now and I'd still be wary of setting out on a 50+ mile group ride as I'd almost certainly be dropped of the back straight away.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Absolutely right, Gary should avoid a web purchase, and get fitted at a proper shop.
I found sizing easier with compact framed bikes as there is less choice and it's similar to mountain bikes. I'm around 5'10" and I think I'd be on something like a 54cm non-compact frame but my new bike is a medium compact frame design. With mountain bikes I usually ride 17"-18" framed bikes.
If it isn't pouring down too badly tonight (there was some sleep and hail earlier) I might head out for a brief spin - it'll be interesting to see how the traffic likes my twin 20W Halogen Lumicycles and how the hills are with a triple. My calf and hamstring are a touch tight from MTBing yesterday so a few roadie miles should free them up.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Tim Jones
Chaps -
'Fraid I can't let what seems to be an assumption about racing clubs pass without comment. I can think of two clubs around me (Sigma RT and Addiscombe) who have a reputation not only for running successful (well...fairly successful) racing teams who also train with more sedate riders every Sturday or Sunday morning.
Any decent-sized club will almost always split into two or three groups to suit abilities and tarining needs. If you've just started, you go with the easy group, or the moderate group, and so on up to the all out second cat, 90 mile, killer-climb rides.
Bruce - Sometimes we ride in big bunches and for the most part we try hard to have consideration for other road users. But when some SUV driving twat has a go at us, we have a go back.
Last summer we were overtaken by a Ferrari which blasted past us with the two yuppies inside shouting the usual stuff. Five miles further on we found them with the bonnet up, scratching their heads. All 20 of us stopped to have a laugh.
Tim
'Fraid I can't let what seems to be an assumption about racing clubs pass without comment. I can think of two clubs around me (Sigma RT and Addiscombe) who have a reputation not only for running successful (well...fairly successful) racing teams who also train with more sedate riders every Sturday or Sunday morning.
Any decent-sized club will almost always split into two or three groups to suit abilities and tarining needs. If you've just started, you go with the easy group, or the moderate group, and so on up to the all out second cat, 90 mile, killer-climb rides.
Bruce - Sometimes we ride in big bunches and for the most part we try hard to have consideration for other road users. But when some SUV driving twat has a go at us, we have a go back.
Last summer we were overtaken by a Ferrari which blasted past us with the two yuppies inside shouting the usual stuff. Five miles further on we found them with the bonnet up, scratching their heads. All 20 of us stopped to have a laugh.
Tim
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Dan M
Tim,
YMMV
If so, great! I've never understood why racing clubs here tend to be cliquey and so competitive. Racing clubs would do well to follow the lead of many running clubs. A lot of this is the fault of the USCF, which does little to encourage introductory racing programs (except perhaps for Juniors).
Dan
Ferraris? Here, you're more likely to have a beer bottle thrown at you from a pick up truck!
YMMV
If so, great! I've never understood why racing clubs here tend to be cliquey and so competitive. Racing clubs would do well to follow the lead of many running clubs. A lot of this is the fault of the USCF, which does little to encourage introductory racing programs (except perhaps for Juniors).Dan
Ferraris? Here, you're more likely to have a beer bottle thrown at you from a pick up truck!
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Bruce Woodhouse
Tim
Just my experiences. Good and bad cyclists and riders of course. In a group (and just touring, not racing) I felt there was an arrogance about the cyclists. I've seen some brainless driving but not all the fault is on drivers as some cyclists would like to believe.
Bruce
Just my experiences. Good and bad cyclists and riders of course. In a group (and just touring, not racing) I felt there was an arrogance about the cyclists. I've seen some brainless driving but not all the fault is on drivers as some cyclists would like to believe.
Bruce
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Jones:
Any decent-sized club will almost always split into two or three groups to suit abilities and tarining needs. If you've just started, you go with the easy group, or the moderate group, and so on up to the all out second cat, 90 mile, killer-climb rides.
How long & fast are your easy and moderate groups?
Regards
Steve