Seeking camera advice

I'd feel much happier if you'd keep your hands on the steering wheel.

George is "driving".

Jonathan
I think the TZ3 would be perfect. Assuming that you are mostly thinking of daylight shots it will give you great results. The Leica designed lens is reportedly very good.

FL75 near Revelstoke BC

Nikon P5000. but I don't know how it compares to a TZ3

Cheers

Don

Alaska en-route to Mt Bona. Rucksack modification was not FAA approved...

Canon Digital ELPH (SD 600 in this case)....excellent camera, small versatile, good battery life...


Regards

Jim

Hi Jonathan

I've recently acquired the Canon SD1000 (IXUS 700) - it's okay, very noisy in low light. Mrs Rico wanted *very* compact. A cautious recommendation - it features a handy viewfinder.

I'd be tempted by the fixed lens 28mm (equiv) Ricoh GR Digital, were I looking for a compact digital for those occasions where I couldn't be arsed carrying my (nikon) DSLR. Fails your zoom/tele requirement though.

Might be worth having a crack at Flickr (www.flickr.com) and find the aviation groups with plenty of pilots posting (oooh aliteration!); you'll get some good answers. I follow the photos of one bloke who jockeys a 747 freighter around the world; he takes his Canon digital SLR everywhere with him, and ISTR some kind of backup shots on a canon digital ixus. Are you sure you couldn't pack one less pair of daks in your roll-on, and take your SLR? #; ) Put the money toward the Tokina ATX12-24 zoom for your DSLR for those tight-in cockpit images.

I for one want to see photos of the autopilot from 'Flying High/Airplane II in use! And I picked this week to give up glue.

best regards

PS - contrail photos from within the cockpits of other aircraft are very cool to us mortals.

You won't better the Panasonic

Another vote for the TZ3 , I've tried various cameras including a Nikon D70 but the Panasonic with its anti shake and wide angle setting is very good .
Having said that I get really good results from my Sony Ericsson K800i phone which proved very handy when we left the aircraft camera at the scene of an accident or dropped it on a hill top!

Most of us have hands-onexperience of only one or two digicams. Try dpreview.com for thorough reviews of what is available.
Ken

Jonathan

A second on the Canon Elph SD 600. Small, compact, and beautifully made. During a trip to the Grand Prix of Belgium last month had one in a hip holster with my Leica M6 around my neck. They're both a joy to use and give great results. I've printed SD 600 pictures at 8x10 and they look great.

Clay

Well ladies and gents some great pictures here and some wonderful pics to boot - only wish I could fly around in the Dash as low as you chaps enjoying the scenery - mind you I usually try and get a visual approach into Glasgow if the wx is good and so we come in fairly low over the city!

I will pop out today into Glasgow and handle some of the camera suggestions - especially the Canon and Panasonic although I must admit the Leica lens on the Panny is a big draw. My wife has an old Finepix 6900 but it's still not much smaller than the SLR - certainly not what you'd call pocket sized and it doesn't go wider than 35mm equivalent (though it's free!)

Rico - you make a good point about taking the DSLR with me - I have a leather pilot case and I guess with judicious packing I could squeeze it in, the fear is more of damaging it because I tend to shove stuff in carelessly (because we're often in a hurry) such as Mag-lite, weather, a ringbinder of runway tables, manuals, and my kneeboard. A very padded case for the DSLR would probably make it too big. On the other hand it will better all the compacts and I will definately check out the 747 freighter Captain's pics!!

Rico - I promise you some contrail pics (you'd have enjoyed a recent approach into Norwich I made at around 10 000 feet. We saw 3x KC135 tankers heading straight for us line astern 1000 feet above us and directly ahead and each had 2x F15 or F16 fighters on its wings refuelling!!)

Impressive and oh how I wish I had a camera with me although it was over in seconds!!

Jonathan

how one could compare a TZ3 with a D70 is beyond me - one is a pro-sumer DSLR that takes a range of exceptional lenses and has a large sensor and rather spoils the cut of one's suit; the other is a reasonably well-implemented point-and-shoot comparatively hamstrung by a small lens and a very small P&S sensor, and fits in one's pocket. You're comparing a shifting spanner to a full set of ratcheting ring and open-ended spanners!

I've just taken a tour around Flickr using their Camera Finder, and looked at the best TZ3 shots (ordered by flickr's 'interestingness' rating). The TZ3's images appeared to me to be from a well-implemented P&S; still rather flat and soft, and rather lacking in detail at 1024x768. Colours appeared pretty good. overall, pretty average.

Ultimately it's down to the photographer behind the camera to produce great images, not the kit. If space is an issue, this (the TZ3) would appear to be a reasonably good solution amongst the many. Doesn't have a reputation for dying young with an E18 error like the Canon P&Ss, which oughta be worth something.

Jonathan, you might be able to put together a thin neoprene insert that stays captive in your flight case and allows you to carry the DSLR with one lens? with a top cover (thicker closed-cell foam) to protect it from the maglite etc. flip-up lid within the flight case?

anyway, good luck with your choice. whatever you go for should allow you to record more of your experiences than a great camera left at home in your drawer! You're right to be handling them - if it doesn't feel good in your hands, it too will be at home in the drawer with your DSLR. What if they bred?
Contrails group on flickr

Airplane Cockpits on Flickr

pS - your encounter with the KC135's etc sounds awesome.

quote:

Originally posted by Rico:
how one could compare a TZ3 with a D70 is beyond me

If you are referring to my post Rico , I wasn't comparing cameras but stating the various models I had taken in to the cockpit and their suitability for a task .( Although I could have made it a bit clearer )
Yes the D70 is a great camera but is too big and cumbersome at times . I'm sure Jonathan has a little bit more room than I did but I was just making my recommendation on an Aviation basis .

quote:

Originally posted by Jonathan Gorse:
Compact (I already have a Pentax Ist DS Digital SLR that is fabulous but too bulky to fit in my flight back and so I never take it with me)
Wide lens (ideally 28mm zoom or less) - the cockpit is a cramped space and sometimes I want to shoot pics of me or others flying
Decent telephoto for zooming in on other aircraft or landmarks
Fairly robust
At least 4 megapixels resolution

Has got to be the TZ3.

I still haven't properly embraced digital - despite an armoury of Nikon lenses, no DSLR. I have owned a Canon Powershot G5 since they were the latest model and I've no doubt that my next digital camera will be the Powershot G9. It will only zoom out to 35mm unless you buy the optional wide angle lens accessory. It is by no means the smallest of compacts but in my opinion it is head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. Worth a look for just over £300 on Amazon.

Peter

I too had a G5. it was great. the G9 should be superb - a G7 with RAW! Excellent image quality, and a decent lens.

misses Jonathan's wide anle requirement as you say, without the adaptor. Still, image quality that will leave any panasonic P&S wanting.

I've got a Canon Powershot G7. Works very well indeed. Build quality is great too. Does not have RAW, but I don't miss it. The viewfinder (although small) is very useful in bright light. Canon have now replaced it with the G9 which looks pretty much the same thing but feedback from the market built in i.e RAW.

quote:

Originally posted by Rico:
I too had a G5. it was great. the G9 should be superb - a G7 with RAW!

If only they had kept the fast lens, vari-angle screen, LCD panel, and battery life

The only advantage of the Canon over the Panasonic TZ3 is the Canon's optical viewfinder. The Panasonic takes better pictures.

curious - I guess you're seeing different things to me. The Canon G7 produces superior images IME.

I am comparing the best jpegs straight from the cameras from the G7 and TZ3. Manipulation of RAW involves so much user skill and input, I'd be hard pressed to know which was which after "development".

Rockingdoc

I'm not at all well read up on these cameras & I had assumed from what little I read about the G9 that it would produce significantly better quality images than the TZ3. Are there any definitive tests on these? Certainly the TZ3 looks to be a lot more portable and the wider angle built into the lense (rather than bolt on accessory) has alot of appeal.

Peter

There is a lot more to the way a digi camera produces a picture than its sensor specs. The lens is critical, but personal preference in the way a lens draws a picture is the thing. I like the Leica look produced by the Leica D-Lux3/Panasonic TZ3 way beyond the contrasty clinical look of the Canon out of the camera. BUT once you start manipulating RAW data from either and then play with it in Photoshop, I doubt if many could tell them apart, unless a truly expert hand was getting the best from each lens. Development of RAW images is a huge skill and I don't think many non-professionals (like me) get close to what can be achieved.
Obviously we can't always try out all the options, especially not under testing conditions, so need the the opinions of other users. Magazine camera reviewers are subject to pressure from advertisers and not to be trusted . As mentioned previously the DP reviewDP Review website is ok, but tends to be populated by sheep which inflates the ratings of previously popular sellers. Best independent reviewer in my opinion is Sean Reid who has saved me from wasting a lot of money.Sean Reid

Also DPRview is said to be influenced by Canon.

Actually Derek, Phil Askey, who founded DPReview before selling it to Amazon, seems to have a rather rocky relationship with Canon. They no longer give a head start on products to DPreview as they once did. The opinions of the users of the site about individual cameras are no more trustworthy than any other self-selecting poll. Often, opinions are posted there by people who have never handled the camera on which they voice their opinions. They are usually fanboys of one brand or another. (Not something we ever see on this forum, right?).

I agree with the Doc about Sean Reid, although he tends to specialise in lens reviewing rather than camera testing.

Lest we forget, Jonathan started this thread asking about a pocket-sized camera with a wide-angle capability that he could easily take on to the flight deck. On that basis, I still think the TZ3 fits the bill. The Canon G series are no doubt fine machines (I had a G5 and enjoyed it), but are neither truly wide-angle nor particularly compact.