Advice On A 'Balanced' System - XPS or Better Amps?

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CDX2/282/250/HC: Haven't listened to this combination, but in theory you would get the best of both worlds in terms of both refinement and power. However, would the system now be unbalanced in terms of the amplication outclassing the CD? Another option to really stretch the budget would be CDX2/XPS/202/200/HC/PSC?

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CDX2/282/250/HC - this would be the best vfm combintation, imho. I've heard the CDX2/XPS/202/200 combination and the XPS wasn't a major improvement - certainly not for the 2.3k asking price! I reckon that the system was bottlenecked by the 202 which served to mask many of the potential gains offered by the XPS2.

A 282 would be much better.

Oh, and get the Naim Naca5 cable now not later.

2 x 5m @ £7/m + termination is about £80. In the context of the rest it's peanuts.



Regards,

Steve.

Nigel,

If its a one off sistem then go for the best you can afford. The CDX2 is a must and so is the 282.

If you can strech to a hi-cap/250 at the same time then go for it, there is no substitute for power in a good sistem.

Then sit back and enjoy the music


NB

I'm surprised no one has stated the obvious here.

Your first path to achieving the balance you seek is Naim speakers, Allaes at least.

Leave the B&W's at the dealers then work back from there.

But Nigels just bought the B & W's!

Hence why no one has recommended changing the speakers

Regards


NB

Ps not what I would have chosen

I am working towards the system recommended a couple of times here already.

I now have the CDX2, 282 and 2 off 2nd Hand HC's (You get a NAPCS thrown in free when you buy a 282). This is currently driving a 150 whilst the pennies are being saved for the 250.

The 150 is doing a valiant job of answering the challenge offered by the 282 (which replaced the original 112). As`each step up has occurred I have been pulled more into the music and am really very statisfied.
The CDX2 took a good 2 months to really come up to full potential and the 282 is only 2 weeks old so it's still getting better on a daily basis but the combination sounds like a perfect pairing already.
Once I get the 250 I feel the full potential of the CDX2 will be released. I don't think the CDX2 is outclassed but is actually a perfect match for this system.
It's only when you get to a 252/300 combo that the CDS3 is truly necessary (Dealer wisdom aswell !!).

SO maybe you could afford the CDX2/282 w NAPCS /250/HC if you consider a 2nd hand HC. There are lot around for 350 -450GBP depending on age.

If you can it would be worth it in my opinion

regards
GEOFFP

I have CDX/82+2HI/250, and it sounds pretty good. My next step is obviously XPS.
If you just put a "2" before or after each of the above for your components, I'd suggest you would have a bloody good system.
I haven't heard B&W in recent memory. I use Kans.
My system lete me listen to music. The "2" version should too.
(Don't forget about racks & mains...)

Paul Rowlands

I've been evaluating a 202 inplace of my 112 with CDX2/FC2/250.2 on Fraim. No doubt, the 202 is a clear improvement over the 112 even when powered by a fc2.

During my evaluation, I too considered whether to jump to a 282 but have decided to leave this until I could also afford an XPS2. The cost difference between 202 and 282 is not insignificant and if one does purchase the 282, then I feel it would also indicate an upgrade of other components e.g. xps2, supercap etc. These psu's are also (for me) a *signicant* chunk-of-change.

So this Saturday it's out with the 112/fc2 and in with 202/hc2/napsc - Rock On

tim
p.s. don't under estimate what a fraim can do too...

Hi, Timster.
(I'm again talking from a minus "2" position.)
I haven't got an XPS nor SC. I ran my 82 off one HC for a while and it was definitely better than my 62s/HC. I then got a second HC (well upgraded my CD3.5 to CDX and so freed up the HC), and it got even better. My next upgrade is clearly to be an XPS, but it may be de-prioritized depending upon circumstances. If so, I'll still have a smile on my face!
I reckon my 82 upgrade was the biggest single step I've taken (apart from making my own hydra).

Paul Rowlands

I hear conflicting opinoins about "bang for the buck" on the XPS2 onto a CDX2 especially if you plan to stop there.

Obviuosly if later you trade the CDX2 for a CDS3 head unit it's a good step but if you plan to stick at the CDX2 is it worth it?

On the supercap again I opted for 2 off 2ndH HC's because it was so much lees cost than a supercap. I don't know how much "more" I would get if I went up to a supercap.

It's a difficult and personal decision wether to go for the 202/200 and the full spec power supplies or put the money into the 282/250 with the CDX2.

It is obvious which way I voted.

GEOFFP

I'll second the suggestion of Steve.

CDX2/282/HC/250 is a fine combination. This was my first upgrade. In the future you have options to play with the PSU. My first step from here was XPS2, then SC and fraim.

The a.m. systems will offer you the possibility to try more speakers.

My advice is to make one big step and to go for a good system like CDX2/282/HC/250. I have bad experience with upgrades, because I am loosing every time /not sound quality /, when I change the boxes.

Regards,

Emil

Thanks for all the advice, very useful as always.

I haven't actually bought the speakers yet, but am 99.9% sure I will either buy the 804s, or possibly wait for the replacement models expected in about 12 months. (This would mean keeping my lowly B&W 602.5s until then). I've listened to a total of 16 speakers with Naim equipment over the last month and the 804s were the clear favourites for me. Didn't like the Allaes as much.

Basically it looks like CDX2/282/250/HC is the way to go, but I would need to have a serious think about whether I want to spend over £11k on a replacement for my current £1.3k system.

I'll be making what may be my final trip to a dealer as soon as they get an XPS in for demo, then plan to have a careful listen to the combos in ascending price order, i.e.
1. CDX2/202/200/HC/PSC
2. CDX2/202/250/HC/PSC
3. CDX2/282/202/HC
4. CDX2/282/250/HC
5. CDX2/XPS2/202/200/HC

I'll let you know what I decide, and why...

As promised, I just thought I'd let whoever is interested know what I decided.

Surprise, surprise the original budget went completely out of the window and at the end of last week I ordered a CDX2/NAC282/HC/NAP250 sistem.

Basically, once I'd heard the 250 I was hooked. For the sort of music I listen to (mainly melodic rock), the difference in rhythm lines compared to the 200 was worth paying the extra. For me personally, from a starting point of CDX2/202/200, I couldn't simply upgrade either the pre-amp to a 282 or add an XPS2 because although both options let far more music & emotion through, for me the rhythm was crying out to be reinforced. Perhaps with speakers easier to drive than the N804s, this would be less of an issue. Although having said that, the 200 can drive the 804s quite happily - the 250 just does an even better job.

So having swapped the 200 for a 250 and having heard what a 282 can bring to the party, the presentation of a 202/250 just seemed a bit crude and unrefined. With the 250 paired with a 282, there is no real weaknesses to my ears (probably best I don't listen to an CDX2/XPS2/252/300 for the time being...)
Clearly adding either another Hi-cap, or an XPS2 or Supercap would take things to their logical conclusion, but my stetchy budget can only stretch so far, so any of these things simply remain possibilities for the future. 2nd Hi-cap in a couple of years maybe. I'm looking forward to enjoying the music for a very long time.

Probably not getting better speakers and rack until we move next year to check the colour of the mantlepiece, etc, so all this performance will be squeezed into some £400 B&W DM602.5s and a £99 Apollo rack in the short term, which will be interesting. At least all the Naim kit will be fully burned in by the time the speakers and rack are changed, so I'll get 2 audio transformations in the space of 12 months.

The order went to Cymbiosis by the way, who have been excellent. Taking all aspects into account, by far the best Naim dealer I have been to (out of 7 visited over the last 5 weeks) - highly recommended.

Upgradeitis is a terrible disease!

Paul Rowlands

First, wish I could visit 7 naim dealers easily (I'm not sure if there's that many in all of Canada! )

Second, did you listen to the kit on a Fraim or at least evaluate what it can bring, or did you cart around your 99 quid special?

- happy listening

Well, this was one advantage of going to several dealers (which I partly did to get to listen to a wide range of speakers BTW). Some dealers had Quadraspire, some had Quadraspire Reference, others had Fraim.

Visiting 7 dealers cost me about £200 in fuel and parking fees, etc - so it needed some commitment. Worth it for the peace of mind I felt it gave me with regards to being convinced I had the best possible sistem.

My conclusion with regards to racks in dem rooms is that the accoustics of the room make far more difference to the overall sound quality than the type of rack. The best sounding system I heard was played on the basic Quadraspire rack.

Demo rooms typically seem to either be bright, boomy or both, so I think all dealers should give themselves some advantage by using a Fraim if possible. That way, the kit has a chance of sounding nearly as good as it will in a typical home listeming environment, which seems to nearly always sound better than a demo room.

At the end of the day, £8.5k worth of Naim CD and amp is going to sound better than £628 worth of NAD/Rega CD and amp even when being squeezed through £499 worth of rack and speakers. (At least, I hope so...) I prefer to do it this way rather than change nothing at all for 6+ months.

It may have been worth me doing a comparison of an Isoblue vs a Fraim, but since I was already so far over budget, I thought if the Isoblue was fairly close in performance to a Fraim for just over a third of the price as the dealers claimed, then that would keep the cost down a little.