New speakers for me...
Posted by: Tony L on 10 January 2002
My conclusion is that I definitely do need to get a bigger pair of speakers. Time to do some serious thinking… I have a feeling that a second hand pair of Credos, Elites, or reasonably sized Royds may be the answer.
I have heard Intros and Credos many times, and have heard both work well, so they represent safe ground. I suspect the Nait is up to driving them quite well (at 89db they have to be easier than Kans), I really don't want to force myself back onto the amp buying ladder, I am more than happy with the quality of the Nait, though intend to respect its quantity when choosing speakers.
I could then move the Kans into the second system (I ain't making the mistake of selling them again!) and then sell off the Point 5s. In my normal tight arsed fashion I probably won't want to buy new, so will be looking second hand…. (hmmm, anyone got a nice pair of AR 11s or 14s for sale?).
What else should I add to my list? I want a nice easy to drive and relatively full range speaker that is tight, musical, and works close to a back wall. I plan to do some thinking about this over the next few months - I am currently taking voluntary redundancy (yippee!), so won't be buying anything expensive immediately, but I am getting a good deal from the company, so assuming I find another job within the next few months I will come out nicely ahead financially… this is when I will buy some speakers!
Tony.
Not that he needs encouraging.... but I'd have my eye on a Vuk recommendation-the Neat Elites. Something about the posts about this speaker all over the 'net...just a "feeling".
regards,
dave
I will attempt to make the perspective a little easier to understand: The guitar is on the left wall and behind the listening chair (the door to the room is just out of shot beyond it). The records are on the right wall next to the chair, and the kitchen is directly behind, but is obviously still part of the same acoustic space. Effectively the chair is directly in the middle of the acoustic space, i.e. it is in a position of minimum bass reinforcement, so the bass is really clean and uncoloured, but without much real substance or weight. Whenever I have been really successful with Kans (and I have been really successful with Kans in the past!), I have always relied on a little rear wall bass reinforcement to give that bit of extra low end kick that they naturally lack.
A few comments above are I am afraid non-starters, I am not prepared to take a massive financial hit by dumping the P9 for a LP12, I have had one in the past, and whilst I love them, I can’t live with them! (I chose the P9 over a fully Naimed LP12) Plus remember I’m a non-ferrous nutter now, so the logistics of using a LP12 well away from the rest of the gear (a la Cattlin) is not something I’m really prepared to consider. Then the fact that the decks balance would be miles different from the CD etc (the CDX and P9 are fairly similarly balanced tonally, the deck just sounds bigger, more spacious, and grooves a bit more).
Don’t think for a minute that I am going off Kans at all, they are great speakers, and I consider myself to be a experienced Kan user who can get them to sound right (all the best Kan systems I have heard have been mine!). I have a second system that I use a lot in a very small room where they will kick ass, so that is where they will eventually go!
As for records that sound thin: Just about anything on Blue Note, any dub - I put the 12” of Perpetual Dawn by The Orb last night and the Kans simply could not do the bass line (I know they can do it in a smaller room), sticking the larger Point 5s in really put some kick back, but still no boom. This room is as I say very clean sounding and well behaved.
Tony.
That room!!
New amp and speakers comin' up I think.
Sorry but seriously lots of space to fill eh?
Credos if you can stand that 'thin' thing they do 
quote:
I would try firing across the width (I know it sounds strange), particularly if one of the walls are solid. Place the back of the chair close to the back wall.
I was waiting for someone to suggest that!
The main problem is my lovely elegant record storage solution would have to go out of the window. The record rack is simply too big to fit anywhere else in the flat (except for one place in the studio, but I have my keyboards / computer etc racked on that wall) - there is no available wall with a unbroken seven foot space that would not involve blocking a window. Even if there were the record storage had such a positive effect on the acoustics of the front room I would be very reluctant to shift it out into another room. Having to go out of the room just to get a record would really annoy me!
Good idea though, and one I gave a hell of a lot of thought to months ago.
quote:
I'm rather surprised no one has suggested a pair of isobariks yet ;-)
Read my lips... I USE A NAIT 2!
Tony.
Oh, the other bit of advice to do is to try different seating positions along the length of the room, until you hear an optimim level of bass. This will probably mean putting on a track and walking like a chicken along the length of the room - so don't let anyone see you
Andrew
Andrew Randle
The frightening thing is not dying
The frightening thing is not living
quote:
Have you got the vinyl? It is absolutely stunning. Its cut across two 180g slabs of really quiet vinyl and ranks as one of the best recordings I have heard in my life.
Unfortunately not, I had a bad experience with 'Rock Action' which was better on CD.
I think I'll splash out though, the CD of C.O.D.Y. is pretty awesome - probably the best CD I have.
Doublets BTW are a tall floorstander of similar width to a Kan, but deeper. There's two small bass / mid units sandwiching a tweeter, all having seperate enclosures internally. I'd rate them rate as the best ported loudspeaker I've heard and the only one I've liked, but they wouldn't work in my room, needing to be a bit further from the wall than my Kans, owing to my small room.
The ports are side firing and we had a bitch of a job getting the speaker to work, only one position in the room worked well, and it's either side of a large opening through to another room. The speakers are toed in slightly, primarily to prevent reflections from a fireplace close to the left speaker, the ports then effectively fire into this open space. One of the reason they work so well I suspect - there's literally nothing between the 'speakers.
They sound great listening in any position, even significantly off-axis, which surprised me. The stands are a custom affair that sits the front bottom edge of the 'speaker on some truly evil spikes, the rear of the stand reaches half way up the rear of the doublet and as standard has a couple of carbon fibre pads for the speaker to rest against.
We didn't like this though, the speakers are very heavy and manhandling them onto the stand such that pressure is placed evenly on the rear pads is very difficult. Fitting a Partington 'Topper' (a small metal cone) in the middle of the rear support, such that the doublet only makes a single smaller point contact transformed them beyond my belief - not bad for a sudden inspiration on my part.
Andy.
P.S. Derren - tidy your room and post a photo
I have Doublets and think they are great. I almost went for mystiques which are excellent on the end of a nait5 anyway but the Royd speakers had more of an out of the box and into the room sound. Andy is referring to Something Solid stands . Vuk once posted an ingenious method of improving the base of the doublets with custom made granite slab and a visit to the fastener shop. A nice pair of doublets and swop the P9 for a hyperspace and you will have great system.
John