New speakers for me...

Another option is Audio Note... Some of their loudspeakers are sealed.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
The frightening thing is not dying
The frightening thing is not living

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(incidently, the nait2 was an upgrade for a 50W integrated by 'another manufacturer'.

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This is a fact - the Nait 2 may be rated at 20wpc, but that 20wpc is completely unlike any other I have ever come across. I read somewhere that the original and even lower powered Nait had more peak current than a Quad 405 (100wpc). I believe it too. Naits are powerful little buggers.

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I thought the Abbots were great - really musical, not fussy about room installation, and much better (refined, relaxed) than Elas which I demoed first time around.

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I heard Abbots on a vinyl based system with a Ion Obelisk plus its outboard PSU. They sounded great, and I am sure I could live with a pair. As for the Rega speakers, I love the Kyte (but too small and Kan like for my current use). I hate the EL8, I nearly kicked Kevin H's pair to death out of sheer frustration with their one note boomy bass (he has Intros now). ELAs have been sort of borderline ok when I have heard them, but I have not listened to the current version. How close to the back wall did you get the Abbots to work?

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I have Doublets and think they are great.

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They look kind of cool. Are they up or down in the range from Abbots?

Tony.

John.n

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They look kind of cool

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Cabinet finish leaves a little to be desired. The real wood veneer finishes look better, and Derren was lucky to get black ash ones in real wood, not vinyl which tends to look cheap.

One of the reasons for the price hikes on the new range I believe, cabinet finish is much better.

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Andy is referring to Something Solid stands

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That was it - thanks John. They're really good.

Andy.

When I was growing up an old bloke man in the local snooker club was always going on about how he was having "trouble with me 'roids" and unfortunately Royd speakers always make me think of him. That was enough to put me off.

Matthew

John

Based on my experiences, you have a problem with the wall the Kans are against. Try removing the hard shiny picture in the middle. Does this make a difference? Then try replacing it with something squidgy and absorbing but a foot or two higher up, too low will kill prat.

It looks like windows and blinds above the speakers. Not ideal. Does removing the blinds make things better or worse - If there were no windows, those blinds would be having a bad effect I think.

Kan you put the speakers where the TV is? If there's room, this may be a better option.

Regards
Steve

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I'm certainly interested in your findings, but make sure you stick 'em on the narrow wall and sit right in the middle of the room to get a taste of my flat!

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Yikes!!! Do you have a nearby friend that could bring some air-moving speakers by your place just for a quick check? I have always had difficulties getting good bass when setup in a room as you describe. There seem to be bass suckouts around the middle of a room that would require an insane amount of air to be moved to overcome.

Maybe move the kans to the side wall for a quick test??? My system sounds muy better this way in all areas.

- Greg

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Hope this works since I'm posting pictures from a Web achive thingy.

The Albion
(-=>Mike<=- has these so consider the potential piss-taking if you buy a pair.)
Pros: Very refined sound, sort of like expensive ProAcs
Cons: Least flat earth of the Royds I've heard but certainly not dead and lifeless

The Abbot
Pros: Very fun, groovy speaker
Cons: A bit ragged around the edges; zingy highs; takes 1.3 eons to run in

The Sorcerer
Pros: Fast, detailed, surprisingly full-sounding; Quad-like mids
Cons: Not as tight as Kans but that's the price of having useable bass; can't be played very loud; limited dynamics

The Doublet
Pros: Fun, groovy and warm
Cons: A bit too juicy for my tastes but balances nicely with lean sources; what I would have bought (on my budget) if the Sorcerers didn't exist

The Minstrel SE
Pros: Fun and groovy
Cons: To me, a Doublet with slightly less bass but still more than Kans

The Minstrel
Basically a less refined Minstrel SE

The Envoy
Never heard them but obviously built to a price

You can also check here for archived reviews.

Joe

Nice Royd site you made there.

Maybe you could fix Linn's site

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

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Nice Royd site you made there.

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Thanks. Any other site you'd like me to resurrect?

Joe

You might want to try the REL Strata rather than the Storm. The Strata is a sealed box design and reputedly more 'musical', its also slightly cheaper than the ported Storm. I vaguely remember reading here (or perhaps another forum) about somebody who used a REL Studio (~£3k) in the Hi-Fi system and a Strata in the A/V system who swapped them round out of curiosity and never changed them back. [I have a Storm in my A/V system which is why I have an interest in subs.]

Try it but I don't think its going to work out long-term. To integrate with the Kans the sub is going to have to cross-over at a relatively high frequency. Not only will this lead to localisation but it will be all the more obvious that the timbre and speed of the sub is different to that of your speakers. Ironically, a speaker like SBLs has a better chance of integrating succesfully with a sub than the Kans do because the crossover point will be that much lower.

IMO you are going to need a full(er) range 'speaker. I think the dimensions of your room are ideal for SBLs although I agree that to go this way would require a commitment to an amp upgrade sometime later - starting with something like 72/140 or 102/180.

Even if the Nait does offer tremendous music for the money, you may have to accept that a larger space involves a bigger investment to get right. Either that or move your system into the spare room !

Allan

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Even if the Nait does offer tremendous music for the money, you may have to accept that a larger space involves a bigger investment to get right.

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I don't agree with this. IMHO the only thing "wrong" with the Nait is that on paper it only delivers about 20 watts, as stated above I am more than happy with the sound it makes. Had the Nait been born a valve amp loads of people with dodgy cardigans beards and sandals would be milling about muttering about it being a total powerhouse.

I don't recall the exact electronic laws (though I'm sure someone here does), but as I recall the difference between a low 82-84db efficiency speaker such as my Kan IIs against a high efficiency speaker like say a DBL at 90db is the equivalent of several kilowatts of difference in amp power. The Nait delivers a very powerful 20watts (it has more poke than many "bigger" amps). It has to be possible to get it to work in my medium sized UK room, lets face it, the thing can drive bloody Kans! Americans can get tiny single ended valve amps with a fraction of the output power to work in living rooms the size of a bloody car park.

What I have to do is choose my new speaker carefully, and to take into account its efficiency and loading. I intend to do this. It actually helps narrow the shortlist list down a bit. I am in no rush at all, I have plenty of time to think...

Tony.

In the context of your current system and going along with the "Near Free" philosophy,I would advise you to try a pair of Rega Ela's,the ones prior to the newest incarnation (not heard the latest)
I can thoroughly recommend them. You see these on Loot from uk£150 + (even at dealers,they are still relativly cheap).

Regards

Chris

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The Strata is a sealed box design...

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...not the Strata II that I had; it had a downward-firing port right next to the driver.

Great sub though; it integrated beautifully with active Tukans.

Cheers

Keith.

i gather the maker of shahinians often uses(?) a small creek amp to drive obelisks, i gather to good effect. so, i extrapolate that the naim, with its good current delivery, would have no problem with shahinians.

i dont know whether audio frontiers loughborough would be a practical proposition from where you are...

enjoy

ken

Issue: You can live in a 12x14 room, be perfectly happy with Kans, and have almost all of 12x14 as usable space.

OR...

You can live in a 12x21 room, use larger speakers that take up 1/3 of the room, and have 12x14 as usable space.

Hum...

Maybe briks or Naim speakers are the answer

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

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Which ones? I've sold two pairs over the years, a absolutely mint pair of black Mk IIs that I had from new and traded against Briks, and the late black Hiq tweeter'd Mk 1s that I sold to Rico.

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It was Rico's. Back in 1983/4 or thereabouts I bought a late sticky out 4mm socket pair new and I remember them fondly. So I impulse bought a slightly improved version of the same thing.

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I'm certainly interested in your findings, but make sure you stick 'em on the narrow wall and sit right in the middle of the room to get a taste of my flat!

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My normal position for serious listening is 5 or 6 feet from the rear wall.

All I need for total realism is a loaner Nait, any offers in South Northamptonshire?

I wonder what would happen if you used your record cabinet as a room divider behind the listening position, cutting the kitchen off somewhat. Your room is sort of live-end/dead-middle/live-end, which is somewhat untraditional.

Paul

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I don't agree with this. IMHO the only thing "wrong" with the Nait is that on paper it only delivers about 20 watts, as stated above I am more than happy with the sound it makes.

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Tony,

I'm sorry but I think you might be barking up the wrong tree bu changing ypour speakers

you said you wanted bass

you said you love kans

you say you are happy with the Nait 2

why not keep the bits of the system you like (Nait/Kans) and add to it in the areas it is weak (bass). The NAit and KAns have certain magical qualities that are irreplaceable. if you change your speakers you will be chasing teh kans magic again. The only sufficient upgrade to a person whos loves the Nait and Kans is 72/Hicap/250 (min) and SBL's. Given that is out of your price range the best thing to do is to (a) audition subs or (b) get better amps. Your Kans are not the flaw in your system , your NAit is. I've been there (as I have with the Mana)

regards

Dev

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Originally posted by Tony Lonorgan:
A sub: I'm not ruling this out. Is the Rega one any good? How much is it? Obviously REL are the market leaders, and something like a second hand Storm or whatever would be an option.

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Tony,

the REL Q series are sealed boxes. They're also quite dinky, and are at the cheaper end of the range. Going loony, a stereo pair would be even better, and still take up less space than an ST ported box.

If you do demo one, try to have it wired up to the speaker ends of the A5. This isolates the rather capacitative interconnect from the amps. As we know, capacticance and Naim amps are not good bedfellows.

Alternatively, the best REL I ever heard (dramatically enhanced a top flight active 250 SBL setup) was wired with low-capacitance speaker cable instead of the supplied i/c.

cheers, Martin

Both are reportedly good with SET's, which means they have flat impedence curves (if not very efficient).

I'm considering a pair of harbeth P3SE's because I am told they fill a room very well, and they have a midrange to die for. I can't image that they will be tubby or slow given that they are sealed. Nor are either of them ls3/5a's, though i know they are based on that design somewhat. It is my impression that both of them use the "lossy" cabinet theory for bass reproduction which sounds (at least to me as I've read it described) very similar to Naim's "resistive Bass Loading" (a brilliant concept, I think--halfway between a port and a sealed box. I guess the "lossy" theory is similar to this. It allows the bass driver to "breath" in such a way that you get pretty good extenion, but also enough back pressure to provide a suspension for the driver.

Anyway, I'm curious as hell, and my pick up a pair soon.

judd

How much is this P3se?

Is this 'Harberth house sound' very Spendory? I get the impression that the S3/5, LS3/5 and this P3se are barking up the same.

just curious,

mike

will f**k it up most of the time. NOT an option.

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I'm sorry but I think you might be barking up the wrong tree by changing your speakers

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Your Kans are not the flaw in your system , your NAit is. I've been there (as I have with the Mana)

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I would tend to agree with you, except for the following two reasons:

1) I used my 32.5 / Hicap / 250 into the Kans in this room with no real benefit to the bass.

2) Using my Heybrooks proved a bigger speaker does fill the room better.

As I state earlier on, the Point 5s are obviously not as good as the Kan, but they do fill the room better, and that is with them too high up on the Kan stands. My feeling is still that this is a room / speaker interface issue, and I am pretty convinced that I am barking up the right tree. I definitely plan to try a decent floorstander in the room before forming any firm conclusions.

Justin:

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I have been meaning to ask why the Harbeth and Spendor Lines don't get more press here.

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I definitely rate both manufacturers highly, the old BC1 was certainly a really good speaker. The P3 looks far too small, I want something that shifts way more air than the Kan, in other words I don't think a miniature will work in this room (so the LS3/5a is out too).

The way I am looking at things is that I am in absolutely no rush (I need to find a new job before I can justify flinging any money at the hi-fi). I plan to try something like the Neat Mystique at home, and then make a judgement call as to whether this is the route to take or not.

Erik:

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Maybe playing with the height a bit could find a sweet spot where you hear what you need to. I know this means taking them off the coveted kanII stands, but just a thought.

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Interesting, but I am pretty convinced I would loose more than I would gain (I have tried the Kans on other supports and not liked the results). I remain convinced that this is just simple physics: a 5" bass unit in a sealed box won't fill a 19 x 13 x 12 space. The Kans do actually do an amazing job - I am sure most would be surprised at how good my system sounds as is, but I do want just that little bit more low end solidity and scale.

Tony.