I've decided to sell the lot
Posted by: Rockingdoc on 24 December 2007
Finally, after more than twenty years faithful membership of the Naim club, I've given up. My system has just become too shouty for me in the upper mid-range.
It's a an olive active system with CDS2,NAT101,52,SNAXO/HiCap,250s, SBLs fed mainly by a prefixed LP12. I've had it ALL serviced and re-capped (at great cost, I might add). For the past week I've tried everything I know to make it sound better; cleaned all the contacts, fitted new mains sockets, replaced fuses, dressed cables, tried all FOUR walls for the speakers.
The main effect was to give me a strained back, many areas of the sound did improve, but it still sounds shouty and a bit tiring to listen to.
I think the problem is that I now spend about two hours each work-day listening to my headphone system comprising a decent CDP into a Tim de Paravicini EAR HP4 valve headphone amp using Senn HD650s or Grado RS1s to taste. To me this sounds brilliant and I think this has made me a better listener, and now I'm bothered by the shouty nature of the Naim in a way that didn't bother me before.
The other possibility is that my hearing is changing with age. I'm definitely a bit more deaf than 20 years ago, so the volume is set higher, but I wonder if taste in sound changes with maturity? I certainly seem to drawn to the warmer round-earth camp these days.
Why not uprade? Well where would I go? A 552 is way beyond my resources and I can't see what else could help.
I suppose this is a Hi-Fi entry really, but I've never seen a thread bumped in that direction.
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by manicatel
Blimey mate,
careful you don't throw the baby out with the bath water!
Is it not possible to try to change one or two parts of the system to get the smoother presentation you wish for?
A change of speakers, or maybe the power amp, for instance.
It would be a shame if you got rid of it all, & regretted it a few months later.
Anyway, hope you find what you are looking for.
Matt.
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Bruce Woodhouse
My system is fairly similar, but I'd never call it shouty. It is alive and light-footed. Perhaps a main difference is that mine is in a fairly small room and not played at loud volume?
I wonder if you need to change to a different speaker system. Flog the active bits and go for a warmer conventionally amped speaker. A cost neutral solution potentially. You could of course audition a CDS3 (not cost neutral!) but that might not alter the fundamental balance issue.
There is no doubt that decent headphones do a very particular 'thing' that no system can really replicate.
Bruce
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Steve S1
RD,
I'd recommend keeping your Naim tuner and CDP, they are excellent sources. Have a play with the amp speaker combination. I use my Naim sources very successfully with a different amp and speakers, having had the 52/250/SBLs in the past.
Steve
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Officer DBL
Have the pots in your snaxo been tweaked at any stage? It could be that the HF pot has been turned up so affecting the treble, giving you the shouty presentation you mention.
Before you sell up, why not open the box and have a fiddle - you never know, it just might work...
KR
Rob
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Chief Chirpa
Don't give up.
First, assuming you have the crossovers for your SBLs, remove the Snaxo and take a listen.
Secondly, make sure your Snaxo's set up correctly and try it with a Supercap.
Thirdly, try some new speakers.
Fourthly, try some more new speakers.
Good luck!
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Simon Douglass
I had a very similar system, but with a single olive 250.Last x-mas it was changed for a NAP300 and a Hi Line for the CDS2, and any shoutiness that may have existed in the previous system has now been replaced by a really captivating sound, which is quite addictive.The SBLs just get better and we[mainly my teenage son and I]play it quite loud. He thinks it sounds "awesome" which is praise indeed from a 15yr old going through the "grunting" stage of life.
Try a home demo.
Simon
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by BigH47
Of course if you moved the SBLs more than a micron they will HAVE to be resealed.See thread in Hi-Fi corner.
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Scirocco
I had exactly the same system after swapping out CDPS on the CDS2 to XPS. It was done without audition (dum!). The result a similar shouty effect and really tiring to listen to. I was really frustrated after being silly enough to spend such money without audition.
I went back to my dealer and after audition ended up swapping the hicap to supercap. The balance in terms of smoothness was restored plus a more rounded sound. So worth an audition.
And yes from previous experience I would agree to play around with the room with soft furnishings especially if you hard tile floors.
Don't give up !
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by count.d
Patient: I have this niggling pain in my shoulder that's been there for months, do you have anything for it.
Dr: Oh I don't know, I'm afraid the kindest thing to do is put you to sleep.
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Bruce Woodhouse
quote:
Originally posted by count.d:
Patient: I have this niggling pain in my shoulder that's been there for months, do you have anything for it.
Dr: Oh I don't know, I'm afraid the kindest thing to do is put you to sleep.
...or indeed if nothing else works have you tried homeopathy?
Bruce
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Earwicker
Blimey, this thread seems to be keeping the Forum Censor busy...!
Merry Xmas one and all!!
EW
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Mick P
Chaps
I agree with earwicker, the censorship seems to be a bit prolific now a days.
The main strength of the Naim forum in the old days was that it could let criticism run off like water off a ducks back. To me that implies confidence in your product.
Naim is a brilliant product and frankly it has no need to worry about adverse criticism be it constructive or otherwise.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Chillkram
quote:
Originally posted by Earwicker:
Blimey, this thread seems to be keeping the Forum Censor busy...!
Merry Xmas one and all!!
EW
Nah. Adam wouldn't do that!
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Madam Eredith,
Mon 24 December 2007 15:02Ha! - the last person to impersonate a Moderator ... let's just say - my roses grew well this year.
Adam Meredith
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Reginald Halliday
quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Woodhouse:
...or indeed if nothing else works have you tried homeopathy?
Bruce
As practised by Dr Russ Andrews?
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Bruce Woodhouse
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Chaps
I agree with earwicker, the censorship seems to be a bit prolific now a days.
The main strength of the Naim forum in the old days was that it could let criticism run off like water off a ducks back. To me that implies confidence in your product.
Naim is a brilliant product and frankly it has no need to worry about adverse criticism be it constructive or otherwise.
Regards
Mick
Mick
Adam was (quite rightly on reflection-sorry Adam) responding to the buying/selling aspect of this thread. He did not censor any criticism of Naim-actual or implied. Absolutely a strength of the forum that anyone can have such an opinion uncensored.
Bruce
PS I've never been censored before. I feel like a kid in the naughty corner!
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Adam Meredith
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Chaps
I agree with earwicker, the censorship seems to be a bit prolific now a days.
Mick
Tuck your head in, Parry.
The "censorship" was removal of pointers to likely dates and places of sale - which can look like "For Sale" posts.
In addition - quite a bit of recent "censorship" has been removing ludicrously big "quotes" - including photos, irrelevant content and uncle Tom Cobbly - an' all.
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Bruce Woodhouse
Welcome to the naughty corner Mick!
Bruce
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Mick P
Adam
Tuck my head in ... LOL
Best to remember that censorship is always remembered but crap contributions are quickly forgotten.
You have the worlds best product backed up by a bloody good team, you can take on the world and damn the criticism.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Adam Meredith
Just started and finished my, admittedly rather uninspired, Christmas shopping today. Misty, cold ride to Villeneuve-sur-Lot was made more bearable by the unexpected fact that French shops wrap your presents for you.
Rather looking forward to several drinks so -
A Very Happy Christmas to all on the forum - naughty boys included.
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Chillkram
quote:
Ha! - the last person to impersonate a Moderator ... let's just say - my roses grew well this year.
Adam Meredith
Ooh-er!
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Unstoppable
quote:
Originally posted by Rockingdoc:
Finally, after more than twenty years faithful membership of the Naim club, I've given up. My system has just become too shouty for me in the upper mid-range.
It's a an olive active system with CDS2,NAT101,52,SNAXO/HiCap,250s, SBLs fed mainly by a prefixed LP12. I've had it ALL serviced and re-capped (at great cost, I might add). For the past week I've tried everything I know to make it sound better; cleaned all the contacts, fitted new mains sockets, replaced fuses, dressed cables, tried all FOUR walls for the speakers.
The main effect was to give me a strained back, many areas of the sound did improve, but it still sounds shouty and a bit tiring to listen to.
I think the problem is that I now spend about two hours each work-day listening to my headphone system comprising a decent CDP into a Tim de Paravicini EAR HP4 valve headphone amp using Senn HD650s or Grado RS1s to taste. To me this sounds brilliant and I think this has made me a better listener, and now I'm bothered by the shouty nature of the Naim in a way that didn't bother me before.
The other possibility is that my hearing is changing with age. I'm definitely a bit more deaf than 20 years ago, so the volume is set higher, but I wonder if taste in sound changes with maturity? I certainly seem to drawn to the warmer round-earth camp these days.
Why not uprade? Well where would I go? A 552 is way beyond my resources and I can't see what else could help.
I suppose this is a Hi-Fi entry really, but I've never seen a thread bumped in that direction.
There are a lot of unanswered questions here. Did it sound shout y before the recap ? After 20 years you've decided you don't like the sound ? And I thought I was indecisive
With this incomplete info I would advise you, as someone has posted before me, to keep the source components. Maybe seek out other amps and speakers. Doesn't De Parvinci make regular amps and pre's ? I've found Spendor loudspeakers to my liking, less foreward and warmer than my Linn and Naim speakers of the past.
Tastes in gear, like tastes in music,
do change over time. Nothing to be ashamed of.
US
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by kuma
quote:
To me that implies confidence in your product.Naim is a brilliant product and frankly it has no need to worry about adverse criticism be it constructive or otherwise.
Mick,
I'm sure Naim still do.
The trouble is some purchasers/owners don't.
Posted on: 24 December 2007 by Jonathan Gorse
I'd plug a pair of ATC's into your system if I were you - the SCM20 passives on the end of my 250 sounded sublime - with many of the strengths of Naim retained but a slightly less forward presentation than my resident SBL.
I actually find Naim and ATC have a superb synergy (though I seem to be in a tiny minority who have tried such an unconventional pairing!!
Brg,
Jonathan
Posted on: 25 December 2007 by Colin Lorenson
A shouty system using SBL's Shurely not
I can't stand SBL's. They ARE shouty in any incarnation I've ever heard. I'd suggest a speaker change dear boy
Posted on: 25 December 2007 by ryan_d
I agree with US that maybe you are just lookiung for something different now as your taste may have changed. You will get a lot of posts stating you should change to what equipment they are using and they may have a point.........but at the end of the day they are not hearing what you are, and it could get bloody expensive to try to make changes to save the sound.
My advice, if you've not already tried this, is to get you dealer round to your house and spend some time with the system to see what he makes of it. If he can't offer any advice or can't spot anything wrong, then you know it may just be that you no longer like the Naim sound.
Hope you get sorted out regardless though....not enjoying your music is purgatory imo.
Ryan
