Heading to The Nederlands

Hi Aric

I spent 2 years working in Amsterdam a few years ago. It's true anyone who went to school on a regular basis speaks excellent English there. Amsterdam of course also gets a regular influx of tourists which makes English even more widely spoken. Also English or American films and TV programs do not get dubbed into Dutch but are subtitled - even children's programs - which must give Dutch kids the heads up!

However, having said all that, I found the situation was not quite the same outside the capital city where, I guess, English would be used less frequently and the locals were less confident in using it and therefore some Dutch was certainly useful. Also, if you want to take an active part in local social life, it is unreasonable to expect large groups of Dutch people to always speak English in your presence! And indeed they won't!

I notice that Almelo is close to the German border and I was based in Amsterdam, but my experience is that speaking German generally doesn't go down terribly well with the Dutch - you are better off sticking to English!

Is Rosetta Stone worth it? Depends how good you are at this sort of learning and at languages in general. Dutch is not the easiest of languages to learn with some devilishly difficult pronunciations - in particular the "g" and "schr" sounds - and it shares a lot of grammatical rules with German so word order and noun gender-related conjugations are not the easiest in my opinion, compared to something like, say, Spanish.

What I did was I answered an ad at the local library for informal Dutch lessons from a native ex-teacher at a bargain price of 10 Euros per hour which worked well for me.

It also got me more into the Dutch way of life - I bought a bike and started cycling again for the first time since childhood. I would definitely recommend this as something to do. Other than that, just do a lot of travelling all over Europe whilst you have the chance. I loved Amsterdam as a city though it is supposed to be quite different from the rest of the Netherlands.

Hope you have a great time in any case

Steeve

Aric

What Steeve says is a good summary.

As an English expat I have lived and worked near Eindhoven since 1999 and can agree in particular that whilst a lot of Dutch speak German especially on business they are not terribly inclined to talk socially in German in part for historic reasons.

If you want to learn Dutch quickly the best thing is to get your employer to pay for you to attend an intensive course. Quite challenging as some of these make you speak only in Dutch all the time. Alternatively Steeve's method with a private tutor is more leisurely......BUT I am ashamed to admit I have not really learned to speak Dutch even after 8 years AND I don't need to, even out in the country village where I live.

An American friend of mine who is good at languages worked really hard to learn Dutch and spoke it quite well. Whenever she started a conversation in Dutch they would reply in English. When she complained they would reply "Oh we like to practice our English and not being unkind, though you speak Dutch quite correctly, we can get the conversation done easier in English really"

See how it goes. I think you will find your wife is the one who might want to learn a bit of what I call "shopping dutch" as she will be at home rather than at work I guess.

As a principal a handshake is as good as a 'contract' and any verbal comittments are expected to be honoured which is execellent but does mean it pays to be carefull not to promise something or for example agree to do or buy something until you are sure.

The Netherlands is obviously not visually exciting being err... rather flat, but apart from the obvious visits to Amsterdam there are a lot of towns with old centers and rural villages with traditional ways worth visiting and for the kids there are the usual array of theme parks......but treating the Netherlands as a jumping off point, Europe is 'yours' all the way down thru' to Italy and Sicily and across into the historic 'eastern' cities such as Prague or Belgium and France in the opposite direction. You are spoilt for choice on places to go, just prepare yourself for the price of gas (about the equivalent of 2+ US$ a liter. Alternatively the high speed Rail system is a bit expensive but a great way to cover distances fast and links into some spectacular mountain railways in Switzerland for example.

My e-mail is in my profile if you want further contact

regards
Geoff

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff P:
Aric

snip......

As a principal a handshake is as good as a 'contract' and any verbal comittments are expected to be honoured which is execellent but does mean it pays to be carefull not to promise something or for example agree to do or buy something until you are sure. snip ....

regards
Geoff

If only that was the case world wide what a much better place the world would be...

Be careful to check which type of coffee shop you go to,
as the cake in some can make for a hilarious but confusing day!

Thanks for the replys guys. Using Google Earth I was able to spy the facility where I will be working. Along the southeastern spoke of Almelo, I will be within a very short distance to my living accomdations. What a nice change that will be! I think a bike is very much a necessity. That way my wife will be free to tool the car around the area during the day.

I've heard the Dutch like best to be told what you think, rather than beating around the bush. This could be problematic for my wife...

Unfortunately I do not, just yet, know how my time will be divided from a living arrangement standpoint while in Europe. I will most likely need to spend some perctengage of my time in England and in Germany (additional facilities). Within this context, I was looking at what would be the best alternative language to try and learn a little of that would take me the furthest, so to speak?

I'm sure plans will change after we realize the time constraints/economics of the situation; but as of right now, a TO DO LIST would certainly include the following countries:

Germany, Belgium, Austria, Switzerland, England, France, Italy and the Czech Republic.

On an aside, how difficult/expensive is it to visit Norse country? Could one easily drive to Copenhagen and take a ferry across, for example? Outside of major cities, how congested is traffic? Spending 10+ hrs in a car is what Americans are used to. But for that amount of time, short of the LA-San Fran route and D.C. to Boston, one could average 600-700 miles here in the States. Is this distance to time ratio unrealistic in Western Europe?

I appreciate all the responses; you guys are a valuable resource, and it will certainly make my stay more enjoyable!

Best,
Aric

Re:Nordic countries.
There is a bridge from Denmark to Sweden. The roads in Sweden arn't that bad, apart from the cities. The little I have seen of the south of sweden I'd describe as nice, but no more. Norway is probably worth a visit. More mountainous, and there are the fjords and the Hurtigruten - the boats that go up and down the coast.

In the winter you might want to head to the north of sweden and the Ice Hotel. You car will need winter tyres and if your idea of straight roads and trees for hour after hour
is your kind of fun, then the 1800km or so from Malmö in the south to the ice hotel will do you nicely. Alternatively, fly to Kiruna and hire a car.

/dl

Apologies for a self-indulgent reply, but I'm reminded of a Swedish film called "Fucking Amal" which is not, I hasten to add, a porn film but a story of two teenage sisters growing up in a small town called Amal in Sweden. The title comes from the line "there's nothing to do in fucking Amal!" (I trust it's ok to use these words in context, Mr Moderator. After all The Guardian can get away with it)

I impressed myself by watching this on Dutch TV in Swedish with Dutch subtitles and still managing to enjoy it. I remember a good line in the film where the two sisters have fallen out as one of them has embarked on a lesbian relationship and the other doesn't approve and the mother is trying to find out from one of the sisters why they aren't talking anymore and she is suitably evasive and answers, "oh, because she's not cool anymore. Are you sure we have the same father?"

Anyhow, all largely irrelevant, unless I suppose you happen to be driving close to Amal..

Steeve

Is their a website that details the highspeed trains in Europe (including maps, schedules, etc.)? I'm looking at starting an initial itinerary for trips and would like to see maps of routes to see what is available.

Thanks.

Aric

Hi Aric

The Dutch National Railways site is pretty good as well - far,far better than the equivalent UK sites - and contains international as well as domestic rail journey information including prices and even "how to buy" tickets. The UK Rail companies could learn a lot from looking at it. A lot of the pages, but not all, are in English as well. Definitely worth a look...

http://www.ns.nl/


Steeve

i have some dutch friends who were just here to visit, a couple from amsterdam. their english is excellent. i asked them at one point how long it would take me to pick up dutch, and the guy said, "oh, two or three years, if you stay with it" and his wife said if i learned french and german first it would go faster.

I had several years of French over a decade ago...most of it has been forgotten, but I could certainly start a conversation and read a little of it too. I think I will try to brush up on my French because I would really like to visit. A few weeks of should be sufficient to remember the basics.

I was doing some research the other day and also learned that German is easier to pick-up than Dutch. Not to insult the Dutch, but Germany has more to see and do, thus I believe it will take us farther, so to speak.

I'm a poor enough linguist to know I haven't got a prayer to try and learn both languages in 2 months

quote:

Originally posted by fidelio:
i have some dutch friends who were just here to visit, a couple from amsterdam. their english is excellent. i asked them at one point how long it would take me to pick up dutch, and the guy said, "oh, two or three years, if you stay with it" and his wife said if i learned french and german first it would go faster.

Not always so if you immerse yourself. I lived there for a year and learned nowt. My sister OTOH, moved there with her Cloggie boyfriend. At their wedding six months later people were surprised that she could be my sister given that a)I was English and b) they thought she was a Cloggie judged by her spoken Dutch.

Duncan

Duncan

The Netherlands are very cool. If I were you I would visit France too and I would stay away from drugs.

The Dutch aren't cool at all. They only think they are. That's because they are living in a padded cell because nobody understands their B!@#$y lingo.

Seriously. I'm Dutch. If you have any questions about Holland don't hesitate to ask.

Have a nice time in The Netherlands! At least Almelo is not too far off the German border .

Willem