Pianists are getting better, and recordings too.

quote:

Originally posted by Dan Carney:
On a side note, I've managed to get a lesson with the well known British pianist Martin Roscoe. Need to find some of his recordings....

Dan,

Congratulations, I just did some reading on Mr Roscoe.

Several sincere questions:

What will a single lesson do for you ie. what will you learn, how long is it, etc. Anything you wish to elaborate on.

Is this done as part of your current studies or is this something you have been able to arrange outside your schooling.

I know you are busy, but if you have the time and interest I for one would love to know more about this experience for you.

regards and thanks
Jeff A

quote:

Originally posted by Dan Carney:
Forgot to mention, I now have the Blechacz Sonata CD. Haydn E-flat (Hob. 62), Beethoven Op. 2 no. 2, and Mozart K. 311 (i think...).

Superb playing - not at all over romanticised. Superb range of articulation, dynamics, and sense of pace and rhythm. If Naim made pianists...

Go and get it - I can't recommend this enough. This guy can play anything!

On a side note, I've managed to get a lesson with the well known British pianist Martin Roscoe. Need to find some of his recordings....

I ordered the Blechacz.

Dan, you brought Haydn and Mozart into my home, while we were hunting out the best players. It's like a fast drive up a curvy mountain road, in a hot car with a lot of torque :-)

There has been speculation on this forum about how best to introduce yourself to new (at least to you) music. I think what we are doing now works very well.

Our adventures have put me in a frame of mind where I will listen to anything certain performers do, as they are fixtures in my notion of the ideal.

How could you better serve any composer's intent, than to be able to deliver that sort of audience. Come on, admit it's fun to have musical stars.

This is a group of listeners in tune with whatever might be played.

Sure, there are many other ways to look at it. But at the moment, this worldview that has stars in it is a real adventure.

Graham,

That is a superb recording.

I don't think pianists are less good at all. The whole classical industry has changed.

If we look at the current established greats - Zimerman, Argerich, Pollini, Lupu, Brendel, Ax, Olssohn, Uchida, etc. They can each hold their weight to the Golden-Age 'lot'. They are not inferior, just different.

Blechacz and Stern are living proof that we also have young talent which will, hopefully, make it to the top.

I have plenty of modern recordings - some are great, and some are not. However, the quality of good ones are outstanding! Again, not at all similar to the Golden-Age sound, just different.

Dan, I'd place Argerich and Pollini among the greats, Lupu almost there.

The others just don't cut it, in my opinion. Think of Lipatti, Michelangeli, Gilels or Richter, just to take a few names: only Pollini comes close, and the rest are rolling around in the dirt.

And modern sound engineers don't know how to mike up a piano at all.

G

Jeff,

The exact duration of the lesson is unknown. I have a Uni assessed mini-recital at the end of the month (Schubert D. 664). I have heard him play it live and it was superb. What will it do for me? Who knows! I'm hoping that a fresh pair of ears (someone who has not heard me play before) may offer some impartial insight. I'm quite excited to see what this might entail.

I've arranged this myself - independent of the University.

He is an extremely active pianist and teacher. I'm rather lucky to lay claim to some of his time!

I will write a lesson report and post it here. The report, hopefully, will be an interesting read for you (maybe others too...), and it will help me to consolidate the information gained in the lesson.

Atb,

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by Dan Carney:
Jeff,

The exact duration of the lesson is unknown. I have a Uni assessed mini-recital at the end of the month (Schubert D. 664). I have heard him play it live and it was superb. What will it do for me? Who knows! I'm hoping that a fresh pair of ears (someone who has not heard me play before) may offer some impartial insight. I'm quite excited to see what this might entail.

I've arranged this myself - independent of the University.

He is an extremely active pianist and teacher. I'm rather lucky to lay claim to some of his time!

I will write a lesson report and post it here. The report, hopefully, will be an interesting read for you (maybe others too...), and it will help me to consolidate the information gained in the lesson.

Atb,

Dan

Thanks, for that, Dan .... best wishes.
Jeff A

Graham55, Dan, the 2009 recording of the WTC by Hewitt on a Fazioli, is the most accurate recording of a piano either I or my wife have ever heard, and she has been a professional aural tuner for over 30 years, and played piano since the early 60s.

The Edna Stern just came - my evening is made!

Mike, I'm slowly wanting to revisit the Hewitt... You sly thing !

Have you, and your wife, observed that modern concert pianos, on the whole have a rather different voicing to those, say, from the recordings made in the 50s/60s?

I've performed on a large selection of Steinway Model Ds, and although they all have an individual feel and sound, the newer ones seem to be voiced differently. The difference, for me, is that they are quite forward sounding - yes, they often have a strong and full bass, and a sparkly top end, but they just carry a certain edge.

I've played on two Bosendofers - they are a different kettle of fish. Very deep key-bed, thus giving wonderful scope to colours.

Sadly, I've never been within a pace of a Fazioli... Although, Louis Lortie swears by them. He rarely performs on anything else.

Do you have any thoughts on this?

P.S. I sincerely hope you enjoy the Stern. Notice that in some of the Busoni transcriptions she uses the bass notes like an organist would use the pedal board. The overtones are wonderful!

quote:

Originally posted by Dan Carney:
I sincerely hope you enjoy the Stern. Notice that in some of the Busoni transcriptions she uses the bass notes like an organist would use the pedal board. The overtones are wonderful!

She writes on that here I believe .... as a non-player not sure I can understand but will try and get it in the listening.

Jeff A

My wife and I will discuss this later tonight, and I will post about that tomorrow.

I have heard the big Fazioli several times at piano tuner conventions. It has the cleanest purest bass I have ever heard, and a voicing that is so transparent, that is, the partials ring so purely, it's a shock to the system.

About the voicing on older recordings. The microphones used at the time didn't have the kind of headroom common today, and they were frequently over-driven, which sounds harsh or shrill in the partials, and because of tape wow and flutter, the partials never really come into focus on these old recordings, at least in my experience. That's the kind of audio fault that will make the touch sound differently than what was played.

Jeff,

I've had a read through her musings.

What I mean, is, that the bass is really deep on her piano and she uses (I think) the middle peddle (not every piano has one). This can sustains notes in isolation. Meaning that she can sustain a bass note and play over the top of it without affecting the bass note. This creates a layering of sounds.

The term to read about is: Pedal Note (a note held at the bottom of a texture).

Anyway, I'm sure it'll become clear when you take a listen.

Mike,

I'm very interested in what you may come up with in regards to piano voicing, esp. as your wife is an established tuner.

The Fazioli is really expensive. I think you can buy 3.5 Steinway Ds for the price of one!! Well, quality costs!

As an aside, Edna mentions in her musings there that she typically plays Steinway.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Anderson:
As an aside, Edna mentions in her musings there that she typically plays Steinway.

Ooppss! Must have missed that!

My wife guessed a Steinway.

I just gave the Edna Stern a listen.

It is very lush and beautiful, but not so exciting.

The recording is a little suspect.

I think this one requires multiple listens to grasp her sensibilities.

quote:

Originally posted by Dan Carney:

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Anderson:
As an aside, Edna mentions in her musings there that she typically plays Steinway.

Ooppss! Must have missed that!

Well down the page she wrote:
"I must admit that I never tried the 4th Pedal. Could you tell me what piano make produces this model? I like to experience many pianos of different periods, each having unique qualities, but in the modern ones I am quite conservative, playing mainly on Steinways."

and also: "... The reason to use the 3rd pedal, called Sostenuto pedal, is the possibility to have the base note held completely separately for a long time (like one of the foot pedal in the organ). "

Listening to her Bach now, thanks again.

Jeff A

Well, I have completed my first listen of the Stern Bach preludes and have a few comments/observations. (qualified with my lack of expertise/experience in classical music, my particular system, and "sound" preferences).

I agree with Mike's first reaction that it is lush and beautiful but maybe not so exciting. Actually, that is perfectly fine for me as I prefer the music to pull me in rather than to come forward to me. This does "pull me in" to listen to that beauty and I enjoyed it very much.

I very much like this Bach more than the late Beethoven sonatas I have by Uchida, not because of the playing of the artists, but I believe because of the differences in the compositional style. I am right on the edge of my limited knowledge here but I think it is my personal preference for the prelude/fugues versus the sonatas.

As Dan has said the bass is very deep at times and full of overtones, but I am not sure that "method" is to my complete liking. At times the bass sounds "disjointed" to me in a musical sense more than a sound sense. This could be the recording, my equipment, the interpretation or more specifically this pedal/overtone thing if that is what I am hearing. When it occurs it sounds to me like there is a hole in the middle of the music - rumbling deep bass foundation, but disconnected in some sense from what else is going on.

Overall, I like it very much, this disjointed effect occurs only occasionally. It is overall utterly beautiful and enjoyable listening for me.

Jeff A

Dear Jeff,

If you are finding the sound of a piano in Bach disjointed may I point you towards performances of the music by a great artisit on the type of instrument the composer had in mind, and which serves the music's needs much more easily - without un-natural constraint in the playing style, or strange effects in the resulting sound.

http://forums.naim-audio.com/e...8019385/m/2912910827

The Well Tempered Clavier is available from EMI France ...

ATB from George

Hi George, thanks for the link, I shall explore. And I appreciate your comment as I thought of you when I was reading some of Ms Sterns musings earlier.

Oversimplified, she is very much of the modern thought that the music/composition may be interpreted in any way chosen by the artist without distancing themselves from the "original" intent.

And, again, oversimplified and from a very minimal knowledge base, I expect I would have enjoyed her even more if she hadn't used what I understand (correctly ?) to be an organ technique adapted to a piano. I see this as a bit of possible "excitement/originality" by the artist that, for me, did not serve the music well.

I shall explore the Walcha Bach soon

(just placed "The Art of Fugue" Bach/Walcha on hold at my library)

thanks
Jeff A

I believe some Faziolis have a 4th pedal. Mike/Mike's wife may confirm this.

I'd agree - not exciting in the purist sense of the word, but very insightful nonetheless.

I like the way every phrase is meticulously crafted, shaped, and executed. I find that the more I listen, the more I notice. It grows on you!

If you listen to the P&Fs separately from the transcriptions, i find that the Bach experience is more effective. Then listen to the transcriptions - the Wachet Auf (Bach Busoni) is a wonderful work.

One other recent piano recording I have thoroughly enjoyed is a Chopin recital by Alain Planes on HM entitled "Chez Pleyel". Planes', a musician I was unfamiliar with, plays beautifully in this varied recital, but the real star for me is the incredible 1832 original Pleyel piano. I had no idea that pianos of that vintage, only ten years after Beethoven, could sound so full and modern. Obviously great strides were made in the development of the piano in a few short years. I have been playing this CD very often lately, and highly recommend it, and would be interested in what other folks think about this recording. I hope Planes records some other music on this piano, and given the favorable reviews of this recital, that should be a reasonable possiblility.

quote:

Originally posted by Dan Carney:
I believe some Faziolis have a 4th pedal. Mike/Mike's wife may confirm this.

I'd agree - not exciting in the purist sense of the word, but very insightful nonetheless.

I like the way every phrase is meticulously crafted, shaped, and executed. I find that the more I listen, the more I notice. It grows on you!

If you listen to the P&Fs separately from the transcriptions, i find that the Bach experience is more effective. Then listen to the transcriptions - the Wachet Auf (Bach Busoni) is a wonderful work.

I'll come at it that way tomorrow morning.

The big Fazioli has a fourth pedal, also by someone called Stewart & Sons (sp.?) according to Wikipedia.

I'd like to be a little more specific about the meaning of excitement. Some performers, like Hewitt, have such a refined sense of the beat in all of its permutations and subdivisions, that they place the short note in a dotted rhythm, and all their ornaments, with an uncanny accuracy within the beat, even if they are speeding up or slowing down.

This supernatural sense of rhythm places the notes in the harmonies exactly as intended, bringing the color of the harmony into full focus.

Whenever you can do that, you have real excitement.

It removes a "blurring" that improves the clarity to a shocking degree.

Correction--Planes' piano is an 1836 Pleyel---pianophiles and Chopin lovers check this one out!

I am going to try programming it as you have suggested, Dan. Perhaps separated that way the bass heavy tracks won't seem so jarringly out of place to my ear and I can appreciate the technique independently.

I may just find it "perfectly" to my liking with just the P & F, I will let you know.

Mike, I may be using excitement differently than you. I don't hear music/playing in the fine detailed note structure/intra-note structure you do. I hear it more as a "whole" musical sound - (I am sure composed/made-up when broken down further by the detailed components you listen for) - which is probably why the disjointed bass to my ear was so distracting - it detracted from the "wholeness" I heard in most all the tracks.

I look forward to your further comments from your listening.

Jeff A

ps. Stern wrote that she is currently working on a Chopin project

quote:

Planes' piano is an 1836 Pleyel---pianophiles and Chopin lovers check this one out!

Oldnslow - This is good news! I had my antennae up for this one but I was wary of what the 1836 piano might sound like. It seems I've heard a few recordings in the past like this and they did not please me. If it does indeed deliver sound that is full, rich, (note thin or ripe) and in tune then my fear of buying should be gone now.

After reading a little bit about Edna Stern and hearing a few clips I couldn't resist; I share in her philosophy in music and she is one I'll support and hope to see her around for a long time. I am looking forward to the Bach but equally so I can't wait to hear the Schumann. For the past year I concentrated on Baroque and late romantic / early 20th century music. Part of my New Years resolutions were that 2010 I would focus on Late Classical and Romantic music mostly; namely Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Schubert, Chopin, Liszt, Brahms.

With the Edna Stern I also ordered another set that I've waited probably a year or more to order. I finally ordered the Annie Fischer Beethoven Sonatas.

Old or young, I really don't see such a divide or distinction in talent or ability. Yes, they often sound different (different times/generations) but I get just as much value and learn from anywhere within the spectrum.

By the way, Dan, somewhere else you recommended the Bernard Roberts Beethoven Sonata set and I should be receiving it early in the week!

Can anyone recommend some outstanding Schumann solo piano recordings (either singular or complete).

Thanks,
Doug

I have made a disc of the preludes and fugues only and it is giving a continuity to the music that was being, for me, disrupted before. So, thank you Dan for knowing which tracks I was having difficulty with and guiding me to a "more effective Bach experience".

For my learning process here, why would the other tracks be interspersed within the P&F. Is that just an artist choice ? And is that why the P&F are not played in what I suspect is a sequence of their writing/numbering. Again, is that just an artist and interpretation decision ?

I will approach the "removed" 4 tracks on their own, soon.

Jeff A