Dedicated Hifi Rooms (Lofty Conversions)

Naheed,
A loft job may have the following disadvantages :-

Bouncy floors - effects what racks will work and makes bass less tight.
Non solid walls - some boundry speakers may not work as well.
long cable runs from mains position.
Low Ceiling height.

It certainly has most of the above issues in my situation.


Simon

Naheed,
I am also about to have a loft conversion carried out and it would be interesting to exchange info.I noticed the conversion entails putting in a new floor and does not rely on your existing loft floor....so you can spec it up to your hearts desire.
I have been quietly collecting s/h naim for a second system up there, which has worked out to be a CD3/92/90/ Ruark Icons.
I accidently came across website apexacoustics.co.uk if you look under 'conversions' you may find it interesting.....I rang the guy who owns the site...Steve,he was helpful and friendly

Ray

Naheed,

If you have the time?
Please draw a picture as the room is and one how you see it as a finished product.

My e-mail is
onthlam@rcsis.com

Regards,

Marc Newman

Hi,
I'm in my second loft listening room/ bedroom. The first was larger because we put a new 45 degree roof on an ancient single floor cottage. With a whole new ceiling over the entire ground floor. We raised the walls 3 feet to make some headroom. 6 months of hell.
But this one is about 30 feet long x 15ft wide at the floor. With very small walls about 18" high. The sloping ceiling is presently plywood (inherited from the last owners)and will be plasterboarded when I get round to it. The floor is boarded, built on standard joists. You'll almost certainly find your loft floor joists are undersized in a normal house. If you beef up the floor joists then you lose ceiling height downstairs or in the loft. You are probably not allowed to lose ceiling height downstairs. Unless you have one of those Georgian houses with 12' ceilings. You'll have to make new ceilings as well and the fire regulations may mean plasterboard intead of the cheaper and easier softwood T&G planking.
Be aware that there are rules regarding minimum ceiling heights, fire hazards, insulation, stair slopes(angles)tread widths and risers have complicated rules as have banister heights and spacing of ballusters.
You must get planning permission in the UK as far as I know.I'm a bit out of touch there. The ceiling and floors must meet fire & also stiffness (flexing) regulations. There must be a minimum (and possibly) a maximum opening (ventilation) window area. There may be a requirement for a fire escape if above second floor level. Finding room for enough insulation to meet the regs. can be an absolute nightmare. Most rafters or trusses aren't deep enough. Unless you build a whole new roof on higher walls you may not have much room left inside. Depending on slope angle and span. Trusses can mean a whole new roof anyway or forget the loft conversion. They are designed to save the builder/property speculator a couple of quid on wood (towards his new boat). While imprisoning the buyer forever in the rooms below. IMO
If you are going DIY then you MUST talk to an architect. Money well spent even if you don't go ahead. They (usually) have so much experience in these things that you should avoid problems. They also have great ideas you wouldn't dream up in several lifetimes. But you must be sure that they do have lots of experince in loft conversions. ASK! Don't be shy. You're paying for his services. Some specialise in office building etc. If you get the right one he will also supervise your work (for a price) and act as go between. Between you and the local Building Inspectors. The latter can make your life pleasant (but worrying) or absolute hell. Depending on your relationship. Normally they show great respect to qualified architects. Because they work with them day in day out. Architects do not pull the wool over the building inspectors eyes. Because they have to "sell" the next project (and the next)to the building inspectors without hassle. Or become quickly unemployed.
If you try and do a loft conversion without consulting the building inspectors first. Then you are in for more misery than you will ever know. You will probably have a house that is technically uninsured and uninsurable if you carry out work without informing your building structure insurers too.
If you do decide to get a builder to do the work. Then get three estimates from three builders and three references from each. You follow up each reference ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT FAIL ON PAIN OF DEATH before making ANY decision. Builders ca smile and show their gold fillings and it doesn't mean a damn thing. Most are crooks, I believe. References are your personal insurance against cowboys. 3/4 of builders should wear spurs. Probably a conservative statistic. A very few are pure gold dust. An architect WILL KNOW WHICH and will recommend those he trusts. His job depends on it. You will have to wait! Good builders are always busy & never stop working. Two year waiting times are probably normal. But worth every second!
I hope this gives you something to think about. I do all my own DIY including putting my roof on, working alone. But I don't do electricity. Nobody but electricians touch wiring (again on pain of death). I believe it is illegal for you to connect new work to the mains. Unless you are qualified and the wiring has been checked as fulfilling the many regulations. There are also a myriad of rules on plumbing. So if you fancy a washbasin tell your architect first. Not when the job is finished.
As to sound quality in the listening room with the sloping ceiling environment. I like the lack of boxiness. But you must remember that you cannot easily listen across the room. Because the speakers are forced out by the slope. As will be your listening chair or head. Unless you have at least 6 metres span at the VERY minimum (with normal 45 degree ceilings). I have only 5 metres and it's not enough for my liking. Do a simple drawing if you don't believe me. I find listening ALONG the wedge apalling every time I try and quickly revert to crossways.
At least talk to an architect to see if it is feasible first. Before raising your hopes too high. There are so many rules that you cannot fail to fall flat on your face. And probably bring the house down around you into the bargain. (If you try to go it alone.) At the very least you may reduce the value of the home you spend so much time working to pay for. Be warned! TALK TO AN ARCHITECT FIRST!!!

Nime

Everyone has the right to be wrong.

Having just gone through the builder / architect process I'd say that Nime was right on the money with his advice.Just to clear up one point,to the best of my knowledge you only need building regulation permission and require planning permission if you want dormer type windows.
Back to hifi,it allows you to spec up dedicated mains spur,custom floor strengthening for the rack /speaker positions (beware of the strange looks and mutterings from the builders) Again I'm lucky to have a large loft area to work with.
Hope none of these posts have put you off you proceeding Naheed .
Ray

Hi Ray,
I speak from 15 years ago when I did my cottage conversion. The Building Inspectors and Building Regs figured on a regular basis despite our using a local architect and following drawings and specs to the letter. Regular visits were made (and required). Perhaps it was simply the scale of our project in converting the whole house to habitable. Best of luck with your project.

Nime

Everyone has the right to be wrong.

Simon
My system currently resides in a spare upstairs room (floorboarded) and the SBLs are backed up against a non-solid wall.

My plan would be to position the mains by taking a link directly from the garage to the loft, then mount the consumer unit in the loft. With regards to long cable runs - i was hoping to keep the naca5 under the floor but somehow still maintain the existing length (5m runs).

The ceiling is probably the major issue - as it'll slope quick sharply.

Ray
Useful website - thanks.
I'm in the process of trying to map a sort of build sequencing map, just so everything is hopefully optimised without later tear-ups, or the shit how do i get my sofa up there - type scenarios.

Thats the beauty mate - i can spec it to my desire...

I'll email you this when i'm done, by interesting to hear what your going through.

Marc
Will do, many thanks...

Nime
Exactly the expereinces i was looking for, i was kinda hoping to avoid the whole building regs. lark, but if i ever sell it would be usefull. The fire escape is a BIG No-No, the muppets around here (rightly so) obstruct anything that tampers with the area character, and the stairs would not go down to well.

I have some specific design requirements for the room, but the ultimate aim is sonic-bliss. I have anumber of ideas, but your comments hold true, and the architect and maybe rooom acoustics expert could be used to bottom out a feasible solution, which maybe i could then tackle or get Bob the Builder in.

A Vision
I envisaged the speakers to firing down the length of the room, plasterboarding everthing else up, further reinforcing the floor where benefical (rack and speaker areas), and then some lovely wooden flooring. Nothing that requires plumbing, maybe some custom integrated CD/DVD shelving... At the opposite end of the room, i could house my TV, i was thinking of raising the TV to viewing height, then building kind of flush structure around it, so only the screen is visble, then hiding all the crap behind it - a sort of theatrical stage set-up. Lastly i love those BIG Velux windows maybe one or two of these on the sloping sides.

A problem i see is the loft hatch - i was hoping to keep all the building tear-up within the loft arena, and just keep a conventional loft ladder, to use as and when, not sure if the building regulations would allow this.

Another issues is the loft structure, it has beams crossing all over the place , its a newhouse but i was told a traditional roofing technique was applied. These would need to be sorted first to provide a clear floor space.

Thank you All
Guys, thanks for the 'pinch of salt', i was seeking, and some good solid advice from all.

naheed...

On the subject in general try the search engine; the 'Listening room design' thread of a few months ago is probably worth reading.

quote:

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I was kinda hoping to avoid the whole building regs. lark, but if i ever sell it would be usefull. The fire escape is a BIG No-No, the muppets around here (rightly so) obstruct anything that tampers with the area character, and the stairs would not go down to well.

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Naheed - there are a couple of issues here.
First appearance: if the muppets in your area are that tight then you would be well advised to consult the planners first - the addition of even Velux-type windows may be deemed 'out of character'. A short informal phone call would sort out the local ground rules quickly.

The fire escape is the requirement to provide an alternate means of escape - usually achieved by having the window opening below 1100mm above finished floor level to allow emergency escape through the window and down the roof -i.e. no external stair, if that is what you imagined. Be aware that Building Regs have changed, and new floor levels added above the first or upper storey will require a 20minute-rated escape route if this exit route is common to the first floor - which could mean adding closers to the existing doors on the staircase to achieve an FR20 rating.

Finally, you must seek building regs approval; you could find the house unsaleable otherwise, because lenders may withold mortgages from potential buyers unless or until the works are approved. Don't worry, it's neither difficult nor expensive in the scheme of the whole job.

M.

UK building regs for download.

Hi,
Can I just put another spanner in the works for would-be loft conversionists? Velux Roof Windows and rain noise!
We found that the large square Velux windows we used. (GGL8) were a complete disaster. They roar like a passing train in any rain from drizzle upwards. Get a good downpour, with a following wind and you'll need ear defenders!!
I speak from long and painful experience. Eight years of sharing a loft bedroom with 3 of them.
They look absolutely gorgeous in the brochures and in real life (for a while). But I couldn't honestly recommend one to Bin Laden!
We even tried a special glazing arrangement with a much thicker outer pane. When the double glazing units failed (in two of them) within six years. It was just as much a pain as the others. We couldn't tell the difference when it rained.
Because they are sloping at 45 degrees (or thereabouts) it is almost impossible to stop solar influx from baking the occupants of the room and all your possessions. Those Naim boxes will act as black body absorbers and you can claim you have solar heating. Without having to run the kit all the time to maintain optimum sound quality.
Fancy inside blinds? Forget it! You'll need the armour plated steel jobs on the outside and then you won't have any light anyway! Once the ultra violet gets through the glass it is too late. It become infra red = heat. You'll have your own greenhouse effect indoors. But the plants will hate it and die on you. For the same reason, there is a much greater heat loss at night because it is radiated to the sky. They also run with condensation. Unless the room is maintained at a high average temperature during the entire winter. My Kans look like it rained on them. Thanks to Velux it did!
Fit dormer windows in keeping with your style of house if it can possibly be managed. And no ugly great boxes or Prince Charles will come round to point out your carbuncle!
And finally: You ignore the Building Regs at your peril! They are there to protect you from unscrupulous builders etc. Why do their job for them? If you aren't going to employ cowboys in the first place. Do cowhorns on the Mondeo appeal to you? Sorry, rant over.

Nime

Everyone has the right to be wrong.

Nime/David Thanks - this seems a 'little' more involved than what i envisaged and alot pricier, could got a cds500 for this much !!!

Went to a friends at the weekend, he's done a major Loft Conversion, for his pukka Home Theatre System (projector with ALL the trimmings), i nearly passed out when he told me how much it cost (design-wsie, its close to what i was thinking), and he had some MAJOR headaches along the way, the least being having an aweful looking iron escape ladder down the side of his house (looks well gawdy)...

naheed...