Death of J*** Revisited

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

... going to stick with it until I have unraveled its secrets, which I hope takes no more than a month.

I've been working on it off and on for years, and I still haven't completely unraveled its secrets.

For me, what's amazing about Jarrett's solo on the form is how simultaneously free, yet deeply inside of the harmonic movement it is ... you can always hear the echo of the tune itself.

All best,
Fred

Fred:

What is it about Kieth Jarrett that you find so fascinating? I know that he is a revered artist. I am ashamed to admit that I only have one of his albums, which someone gave to me recently and have not even catalogued into my collection yet. Hence I cannot remember the title as I have yet to get around to do any serious listening to it. Of the piano maestros that I have in my collection, the ones that I enjoy the most are McCoy Tyner, Monk and now of course, ... Fred Simon. Strangely, I have more of Jim Beard and Don Grolnik's albums than I do of Keith Jarrett. Will be on the lookout now for more Keith Jarrett albums (in particular the Koln Concert which I hear is one of his best works) thanks to the discussion between you and Mike.

Irwin - Keith is a piano god. His music making is religious IMHO. The lack of Keith in your collection needs fixing

There are many different styles to Keith and a huge catalogue to work through but I will offer you a few suggestions to start with from different phases of his career.

1. The Trio - no one plays piano trio better. The album My Foolish Heart, a recent trio release is superb. I am also a big fan of the album Whisper Not as I was at that show. There are so many other good trio albums.

2. European Quartet - Belonging, My Song and Personal Mountains

3. Solo - well the best known is Koln Concert but you cannot go wrong with Bremen, Vienna, Paris, La Scala, Sun Bear and so on.

Solo
More solo - a tune you will know
Trio
More trio - wow

I have heard nowhere near the amount of Jarrett that Adrian has, but this is all I needed to hear, many years ago, to know of the magic:

here

The very definition of lyrical, for me. Enjoy.

Jeff A

That's a great choice Jeff. very beautiful and as you say lyrical. I don't think Monk or Evans can compete

The proverbial goose-flesh on the back of the neck every time I hear it. Although Peacock doesn't really come through the MacBook speakers so well

quote:

Originally posted by Lontano:
I don't think Monk or Evans can compete

This comes close, for Bill Evans.

And compositionally, Monk is served well here. I am not a huge fan of Monk's playing, but his compositions are priceless.

quote:

I don't think Monk or Evans can compete

That is sacrilege. For me, listening to Monk is a religous experience. I love his quirky style.

Thanks for the Jarrett recommendations. I will be listening more seriously to him.

quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

... going to stick with it until I have unraveled its secrets, which I hope takes no more than a month.

I've been working on it off and on for years, and I still haven't completely unraveled its secrets.

For me, what's amazing about Jarrett's solo on the form is how simultaneously free, yet deeply inside of the harmonic movement it is ... you can always hear the echo of the tune itself.

All best,
Fred

Fred, here's hoping a month will be enough time on "Keyoke" to hear the echo of the melody in every phrase. That certainly isn't happening for me yet.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

Fred, here's hoping a month will be enough time on "Heyoke" to hear the echo of the melody in every phrase. That certainly isn't happening for me yet.

Something to try ... learn the melody cold, so that you can play it in your head on command (I'm playing it in my head as I type this). Then, you should be able to sing (or hear in your head) that melody throughout both Wheeler's and Jarrett's solos, albeit making some adjustments here and there, of course.

All best,
Fred

quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

Fred, here's hoping a month will be enough time on "Heyoke" to hear the echo of the melody in every phrase. That certainly isn't happening for me yet.

Something to try ... learn the melody cold, so that you can play it in your head on command (I'm playing it in my head as I type this). Then, you should be able to sing (or hear in your head) that melody throughout both Wheeler's and Jarrett's solos, albeit making some adjustments here and there, of course.

All best,
Fred

We have been singing the lead sheet at the piano today :-)

Fred, what I'm missing is the distinct rhythmic character of the melody, which seems to get lost in the solos.

In 3/4, and opening with four equal length notes (the silences count too) into the first three beats, and later on two dotted quarters over three beats, and finally eighth-quarter-quarter-eighth.

In Beethoven, those rhythmic signatures would never be far from your ear, and in doing so, the interest of the music increases exponentially.

An interesting thing about these three rhythms is that they are the same in retrograde, a feature Messiaen would have been sure to exploit.

At any rate, I am now determined to hear "Heyoke" as intended, and am having a lot of joy in doing so :-)

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

Fred, what I'm missing is the distinct rhythmic character of the melody, which seems to get lost in the solos.

At any rate, I am now determined to hear "Heyoke" as intended, and am having a lot of joy in doing so :-)

Glad for the joy.

The 4-against-3 rhythm characteristic of the written melody is definitely utilized in the solos. You'll hear it.

Best,
Fred

I'm making some headway with this. For the first 10 minutes, I can follow quite nicely, then an extended development section takes the music far afield of the tune, but in an interesting way that does "echo" the tune, until the cymbal solo and the trumpet's closing line, which seems like new material.

If you think a little study won't change what you hear, I beg to differ. I'm actually beginning to enjoy this tune, a pleasure that would have been denied me without applying a little elbow grease.

Just a random thought. I have a good deal of music from the 70s, jazz, popular, rock, R & B, classical, opera, film and books.

It is all overwrought.

Look at the cars from that era.

Strange indeed.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

For the first 10 minutes, I can follow quite nicely, then an extended development section takes the music far afield of the tune, but in an interesting way that does "echo" the tune, until the cymbal solo and the trumpet's closing line, which seems like new material.

It is new material ... it's foreshadowing the next composition. In fact, the entire album is really a suite of interconnected pieces, held together by the glue of Jarrett's solo interludes.

quote:

If you think a little study won't change what you hear, I beg to differ. I'm actually beginning to enjoy this tune, a pleasure that would have been denied me without applying a little elbow grease.

Very glad you're enjoying the tune, but how did you get the idea that I don't think that study will change what one hears? It absolutely will, I agree.

All best,
Fred

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

Just a random thought. I have a good deal of music from the 70s, jazz, popular, rock, R & B, classical, opera, film and books.

It is all overwrought.

Mike, I find discourse with you generally enjoyable, but sometimes I really have to scratch my head in wonder.

I think the 1970s brought a golden period in the arts, and I can cite album after album in all genres, film after film, etc. that are among the greatest works of art ever made by human beings. Just a very few for starters ...

Facing You and Belonging - Keith Jarrett
For the Roses and Hejira - Joni Mitchell
Music for Eighteen Musicians - Steve Reich
Music of My Mind - Stevie Wonder
Changes, 1 and 2 - Charles Mingus
I Sing the Body Electric and Heavy Weather - Weather Report
Blood On the Tracks - Bob Dylan
Fluid Rustle - Eberhard Weber
Bright Size Life - Pat Metheny
What's Going On - Marvin Gaye

And in film ...

McCabe & Mrs. Miller and Nashville - Robert Altman
The Conversation and The Godfather, parts 1 and 2 - Francis Ford Coppola
Aguirre, the Wrath of God - Werner Herzog
Cries and Whispers - Ingmar Bergman
Amarcord - Federico Fellini
Annie Hall - Woody Allen
Day For Night - Francois Truffaut
The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie - Luis Bunuel

Oh, I could go on and on and on ... so many great works of art in music, film, theater, literature in the 1970s. Maybe, as you say, the cars were overwrought, but the arts were flourishing.

All best,
Fred

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:
Just a random thought. I have a good deal of music from the 70s, jazz, popular, rock, R & B, classical, opera, film and books.

It is all overwrought.

Look at the cars from that era.

Strange indeed.

I could not agree less. The 70s are, for me, a golden patch. In addition to the records Fred lists, I would add:

Bruce Springsteen - Born to Run
Wings - Band on the Run
Rickie Lee Jones - Rickie Lee Jones
Kate Bush - The Kick Inside
Led Zeppelin - IV and Physical Graffiti
John Lennon - Plastic Ono Band
Bob Dylan - Desire
Joni Mitchell - Court and Spark
CSN&Y - Deja Vu
David Bowie - Nearly everything he did in the 70s

I could go on...

I agree. 70's was a golden era for music - more classics than any other era for me. It is my favourite musical time. Maybe Mike is referring to 70's Yes albums when he talks about overwrought. I love all that complexity and I would think lovers of classical music might appreciate those prog excesses.

I have nothing on these lists (being a tad too young at the time, and ignorant thereof since).

So this represents another potential feast of new work for me. All albums are now recorded in notebook for exploration.

Thank you gentlemen. This forum, directly, by request, and indirectly from reading interesting posts has radically altered my listening habits and added many very fine works to my collection. I also anticipate many more.

Regards, Paul.

Fred, glad you enjoy the discourse. Same here. I really appreciate being able to say what's on my mind about music, knowing I am among friends here on the forum.

"Annie Hall", "The Godfather", "Flash Gordon", Stevie Wonder's "Songs in the Key of Life", Penderecki's "Devils of Loudon", so much Vonnegut, Tower of Power, Earth Wind and Fire and "Gnu High" are all overwrought.

That doesn't mean bad, or even flawed. Just a bit overheated emotionally. Still enjoy it from time to time, but my ear and heart are headed elsewhere.

"Heyoke's" 20 minutes don't have enough superstructure to support their own weight. Classical music of that length adheres to a form for a reason. Length of composition is a big part of that reason.

But that's just my taste and my past :-)

To this day, I have never heard a Yes album.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

That doesn't mean bad, or even flawed. Just a bit overheated emotionally.

Overheated emotionally, as opposed to ... Beethoven?

Best,
Fred

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:
To this day, I have never heard a Yes album.

I don't think it will be your cup of tea.

quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

That doesn't mean bad, or even flawed. Just a bit overheated emotionally.

Overheated emotionally, as opposed to ... Beethoven?

Best,
Fred

Yes, as opposed to Beethoven.

There is nothing over-wrought, or over-heater about Beehoven's music. Like Bach the logic flows without any excess of artifial effect.

Miriads, are the performances of Beethoven that fall into the trap of artificially hotting it up, however ...

Just like with Tchaikowski ...

Best wishes from George