HDMI interface

The video portion of HDMI is the same as DVI and adaptors/leads can be bought to go from DVI to HDMI.

The main advantage of HDMI is that it can also carry digital audio.

Hi Tuan

I have a DVD5 and a Pioneer PDP434 plasma. I bought an adaptor from the Chord Company for £40 which does very nicely.

quote:

Originally posted by endellion:
Hi Tuan

I have a DVD5 and a Pioneer PDP434 plasma. I bought an adaptor from the Chord Company for £40 which does very nicely.

Thanks for the info. This means another 100 dollars for me to spend. How do you like your flat screen? Pioneer is a very respectable company for plasma screen and I see some models that are very nice. I am thnking of getting a new 40 inch Sony Bravia LCD costing around 4500 dollars (Canadian).

You won`t have to pay for an adapter, just order your digital video cable as a DVI to HDMI one, it is the same price as a full HDMI cable.

I would seriously check plasma screens at that prices. I think an Elite is about 5K can or a Runco 42" 5.5K.

Emmanuel
Euphonie

quote:

Originally posted by Stuart M:
The main advantage of HDMI is that it can also carry digital audio.

The advantage would be in the convenience. I might be slightly behind, but I still prefer separate cables for the sound and picture signals.

Cheers,

Edo

DVI is limited to something like 8-bits per colour (i.e. 8bit Red + 8bit Blue + 8bit Green). So even if the video processing is done at a higher bit depth it will be down converted and output at 8 bit on DVI

HDMI is also capable of supporting 8bit RGB but is also capable of supporting 8, 10 and 12bit component video (i.e YCbCr). A HDMI source connecting to a HDMI display should automatically negotiate the best bit rate supported by both ends.


The other advantage of HDMI is that the connector is designed deliberately to be small and narrow to allow it to be drawn more easily through conduit and trunking.

Allan

I did not know that HDMI was capable of being technically superior to DVI, but a disadvantage that HDMI does have is that the cable does not screw or lock into place and so can work loose or fall out especially if the cable goes in vertically as it does on many plasma panals. In my set up I personnaly prefer DVI and since my scaler will only input and output DVI the DVD5 with DVI output was actually more convenient for me.

Hi Simon,

I don't know what the spec's are for the DVD5 but it seems to me that most DVD players use video DACs that are > than 8 bit. In fact 10 and 12 bit seemed quite common last time I looked. Because of this potential for finer 'granularity' in the colours, it's sometimes the case that the image can look better on an analog output rather than (DVI) digital. I guess overall, there's pro's and con's to both ways - bit like the anolog vs digital audio debate.

Have you compared DVI to the component video output on the DVD5? Wonder if Naim have a stated preference ?

Allan

Yes, I saw it at my dealer and was able to switch between the two. DVI was slightly better, but not by much and nothing to put you off component. Problem is here though that you are not only comparing different outputs on the DVD5 but you are also comparing the inputs on the plasma or projector.

Simon,

Not sure what type of display you have, but I have a Sharp with (vertical) hdmi plug and the chances of it working lose or "falling off" of its' own accord are parctically nil.

hdmi is luverly, less cables and easy to route as mentioned by someone else here. The latest dvd players on sale here now "upsample" and include hdmi.

hdmi looks like the connectivity of the future, at least for the mainstream; Now all I need is a display device that has more than one hdmi input instead of wrestling with umpteen component and audio cables....

tim

Tim

I have just purchased a Toshiba 37WLT58. It has two HDMI inputs and works well (IMHO) with the DVD5.

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by timster:
Simon,

Not sure what type of display you have, but I have a Sharp with (vertical) hdmi plug and the chances of it working lose or "falling off" of its' own accord are parctically nil.

hdmi is luverly, less cables and easy to route as mentioned by someone else here. The latest dvd players on sale here now "upsample" and include hdmi.

hdmi looks like the connectivity of the future, at least for the mainstream; Now all I need is a display device that has more than one hdmi input instead of wrestling with umpteen component and audio cables....

tim

I used to have a Panasonic TH42PWD6 plasma with a DVI input which was great as it accepted the screens native resolution and was a nice secured connection, I then changed to a TH42PV500 HD Vierra TV that had HDMI but it was rubbish over HDMI as it only accepted (PAL) 576, 720 or 1080 via HDMI even though the screens resolution was 768x1024 so I sold it after 3 months. I swapped it for a TH42PHD8 which is the panel only (business version) version of the PV500 Vierra (consumer version). It has HDMI too and again I found it can only accept 576, 720 or 1080 so I don’t use it at all. It has the ability to have a DVI board (and many other boards) and I was going to get one for it as they accept a much higher number of resolutions, but I now actually just feed it via it's VGA analogue socket directly using analogue output from my DVDO iScan HD+ scaler. This configuration allows me to feed an unprocessed 576i (yes interlaced) DVD signal via RGB (analogue) into the scaler, let the scaler de-interlace, upscale and process and then feed the panel it's native resolution of 768x1024 so the panel does the minimal amount of processing. The results being that the picture is now the mutts nuts, way better than the HDMI input and it’s all analogue! An all digital connection is not all it’s cracked up to be and I think the main reason we are going that route is because the film makers and SKY want a connection method that includes a sophisticated copy protection systems aka HDCP. They sell HDMI as a convenient and superior quality connection, but there are other motives.

I know that many people on this forum will quite happily spend tens of thousands of pounds (and more) on a system to play music, and then spend hours working out what is the ultimate placement of their system, then get their house electrics rewired, work out what are the best cables and even the best way to dress these cables, but some are not so happy to spend anywhere near as much time or money on an AV system and would prefer convenience over performance. Whilst this is absolutely fine and everyone has their own priorities and opinions I tend to have a similar philosophy for my AV system as I have with my music system. I am not after the most convenient system or the one that necessarily looks the best. I am after one that performs the best for the money I want to spend and everything else looks and convenience wise, although they play an important part, they come a definite second to performance.

I think DVI is aimed more at the computer/prosumer market (probably akin to BNC component in the analogue world) and hence supports more resolutions and also has a plug that is locked onto its socket, HDMI is more a consumer friendly connection (probably akin to RGB scart) and hence supports easy to understand resolutions and is simpler to plug in. I’m not saying one is technically better than the other, I just think they are aimed at different things. I personally prefer the DVI as although it does not look as neat and is maybe not so simple to plug in, I prefer the fact that it is locked in place and the fact that it allows me to feed a screen it’s native resolution from a scaler rather than the HDMI agreed 720 or 1024. This means that the screens inferior scaler does not have to process the signal which tends to degrade the picture.

If I apply this to the music world, I’m sure you can connect your CD player to your amp with a nice neat easy to get hold of phono lead, but I prefer to use the Din leads.

For what it’s worth I think SDI is the best video digital connection around at the moment from a DVD player and Sky, but I do not know of any UK DVD players or Sky boxes that have this as standard and it has to be done as an after market fitment for around £250.

Simon,

If you've not seen it, this site may be of interest for some Panasonic plasma tweaking. Bummer about the HDMI blade input resolutions - I still have a PWD6 so have managed to avoid that debacle that for now.

Out of interest, what machine did you get SDI modified?

-Mark.

Cheers Mark,

Thanks for the link. Yes shame about the HDMI, HDMI is not bad, DVD to TV direct and if you don't have a scaler to feed your TV it may be the best option, but VGA @ 1024x768 via a scaler is just loads better.

I do not have an SDI DVD player yet. I have only recently bought the SDI upgrade kit for the DVDO iScan HD+.

Does anyone know if Naim or anyone else do an SDI upgrade for the DVD5? If not I may be looking for an Arcam or Denon DVD as I know they work really well with the SDI mod.

Hi Simon,

As SDI does not offer any copy protection, I don't think Naim's licensing will allow them to provide such an output. There are companies that do these mods, but it pretty much voids any warranty that you have on your machine and you're stuck with whatever support the modifier provides. That being said, I've heard that an SDI signal into a scaler is currently the best non-HD picture you'll get (not seen one myself).

There's a place in the UK that offers SDI mods. You may want to see what they offer.

PJHi-Fi SDI Mods 1

PJHi-Fi SDI Mods 2

You may want to wait until the Naim scaler is in place on the DVD5, and do a comparison. I don't know where Naim will be taking the signal from, but given that it's an internal scaler I imagine they could take the signal from the MPEG decoder, the same way an SDI mod does, and provide a picture that is as good as, if not better than, an SDI-mod->scaler path. You'd also have an intact warranty! Of course, this is all conjecture. Maybe Naim would be willing to let out a little bit of info on their scaler architecture? :-)

-Mark.

Yes I had heard that the Naim Scaler is to be pretty good, but Naim will not give away any other details, specs, price etc!!! Also the fact that it can only scale external sources that have been fed to it via it's analogue SCART input is a bit limiting, especially when HD-Sky comes along soon. I had already emailed off to PJ Hi-Fi earlier today about their SDI services, so hopefully will get a better idea when they reply.

Yes, I also thought the scaler input via SCART was a curious choice, also given that it's not a used format in some markets. Maybe they'll surprise us when it gets released ...

quote:

Originally posted by Mark R:
Yes, I also thought the scaler input via SCART was a curious choice, also given that it's not a used format in some markets. Maybe they'll surprise us when it gets released ...

I doubt it as there is not much free space on the back of the unit. Also I think the scaler card is the same scaler card for the N-Vi and the N-Vi definately has not free space on the back, which is why it does not have preouts for center and rears at all, which I think is a major problem, especially for the center. I guess the SCART input could be used as RGB input or maybe component with a special lead, but no digital input is also a major minus point, especially if the scaler is going to cost £1000+.

I'm no expert on this but my understanding is that DVI & HDMI are simply ways of transferring the picture info in the same way as a VGA connection on an old PC monitor did but the difference is they do it digitally. If everything else is equal the DVI option should be better than any analogue connection as you should be reducing the number of analogue/digital conversions.

Now the issue for LCDs, Plasmas and projectors is that unlike CRTs they have a fixed resolution i.e. a CRT could scan 800 lines or 1000 lines it's just a matter of controlling the electron beam, whereas an LCD only ever has say 1000 dots by 800 dots. If you send anything other than this resolution to the LCD it has to scale it up or down. If you use s-vhs, component etc the internal scaler will convert to the resulution of the LCD, if you send a different resultion using DVI/HDMI/VGA it will still have to rescale.

I'm a bit sceptical about the "HD ready" logos because my guess is that it doesn't mean the screen has exactly say 1080 lines, it just means it can take a 1080 line input and scale it up or down.

From what I have experienced once you trust the display to scale the input up or down the results aren't always that great. For the best output from a display what you really want to be doing is sending the picture in exactly the same resolution as the screen so it doesn't have to scale up or down. This is why external scalers such as the i-scans often get such great reviews because this is exactly what they are doing and why Naim's scaler is so eagerly awaited.

For me I went the home PC route. I use a software DVD player (PowerDVD). I then use a utility called Powerscan where I can set exactly the 1366 x 768 resulution that my Sony projector has and the precise 56hz refresh rate it operates. The difference in the display quality between this and sending a 'standard' pc resulution was not small.

I haven't done any serious comparisons between this set up and a high end DVD player, but the display quality was such a massive leap forward from my previous average DVD player as to be laughable. the great thing was that the PC cost me £600 and I can use it to surf, email, do bits of work, etc. If you have a half decent PC (say 2 Ghz upwards) and a plasma/lcd/projector you owe it to yourself to spend a bit of time downloading a dvd player and powerstip. I wouldn't pretend that it's quite as wife-friendly as a stand alone DVD player, but it really is getting the best from your display.

In the same PC I've also got a Freeview TV card which works like a Sky+ box 'taping' progs onto the HDD. Again the difference between watching TV from this on the projector and using the tuner in an S-VHS video is enormous.

Phil

I just purchased the Sony 40" Bravia XBR1 LCD TV flat screen and a Sony DVD player that does up-scaling and has HDMI connection. Amazing performance. The LCD flatscreen costs around 4500 canadian dollars and the DVD player is around 200 dollars. Do not trust me, go and experience yourself with Sony technology

[QUOTE] [/Senior Member
Posted Tue 06 December 2005 14:41
I just purchased the Sony 40" Bravia XBR1 LCD TV flat screen and a Sony DVD player that does up-scaling and has HDMI connection. Amazing performance. The LCD flatscreen costs around 4500 canadian dollars and the DVD player is around 200 dollars. Do not trust me, go and experience yourself with QUOTE]

Does it come with a rootkit ready installed?