Kiwi's with a mains spur
Posted by: Hutch on 24 July 2007
Any locals out there that have used our Naim distributors spec sheet to install a mains spur?
I am interested in your comments before I proceed to get in an electrician.
Thanks
Don
Posted on: 24 July 2007 by Rico
just f*#kin do it. If your dealer has entrusted you with "the plan" - you need to accept this as a huge gift, find a *GOOD* sparkie, and get on with it. Keep the holy order secret!
Make sure your sparkie does it EXACTLY per the sheet. Don't consider down-sizing anything - your electrician will tell you it's overkill and suggest less. Just smile sweetly and say "indulge me". He'll probably charge you top-whack under the "fool and his money are easily parted" clause, as you appear foolish to him for requesting this madness. And he's going to be grunting around under your house for a fair while running cables that are "stiffer than a butchers prick" (to quote an electrician talking about the earth cable). Fear not, and let your faith be unwavering.
It's well more than a hicap's worth, for a lot less than a hicap. hell, I'd say it's about a supercap's worth at the fundamental end of the scale.
That big earth wire must cost a lot these days with the huge price of copper and all...
Did I mention "JFDI"?
PS - we expect an update when it's done.
PPS - your local Naim distributor did the hard yards to get this right, so you didn't have to. He's a dedicated professional. What are you waiting for, asking a bunch of nerds on a forum!?
Posted on: 24 July 2007 by PJT
quote:
Originally posted by Don Hutchinson:
Any locals out there that have used our Naim distributors spec sheet to install a mains spur?
I am interested in your comments before I proceed to get in an electrician.
Thanks
Don
YES, and
YES it was very worth while doing. Similar to a black box upgrade!
Cleans up the sound no end, and for less than $1k is a real bargain. "JKDI", as Rico has said.
I was a bit skeptical, but seeing as I had to have a new water cylinder wired in I gave it a go.
Your dealer should be able to recommend a sparky.
Posted on: 24 July 2007 by Stevea
Yes I have a spur (plus one in a hobby room down stairs in case I decide to move the system down there). An electrician was easy to find as one of them has fathered my sisters children.
I think it made some difference but the loop my system was on previously had little else on it and the house seems to have a good supply. I only did the fuses/spur section from the main dustribution box as it was relatively simple to do (laid the cables myself and left for the electrician to connect) and I was getting some other wiring done at the same time.
I may one day get the bit from the distribution box area back to the main incoming meter box/earth spike done but I hear no need and 'if it aint broke don't fix it' rules when it comes to the amount of house destruction involved to do that extra bit.
I have the instruction sheet (soft copy) supplied by my dealer and can email it to you (address in profile) if you wish.
Steve
Posted on: 24 July 2007 by Rico
Steve
I previously ran what had been installed as a dedicated spur. Sadly the furnace had been tapped off it. My place had been fully re-wired in the last 20 years. Having the full-monty dedicated spur as suggested by our deaaler paid real dividends. The earth spike and cable went in first (how could I forget - I banged it in, 2 metres of it, into rock), with the sparky doing all of the connection work. Connection of the rest happened soon after.
If you haven't already had the earth done per spec, I'd recommend you consider and implement immediately. It is the foundation. I would expect speccing the remaining work to be done at the same time will also pay dividends for you. You're really only playing with about 50% of what's available, currently (no pun intended).
regards
Posted on: 24 July 2007 by Engelbert
Yes - I had it done about 6 years ago and never regretted it.
If you're going to stick with high-end audio, it's a no-brainer.
Have a chat with Chris Murphy in Wellington. He can put you on to a good trail.
Cheers,
Engelbert
Posted on: 24 July 2007 by Stevea
quote:
Originally posted by Rico:
Steve
I previously ran what had been installed as a dedicated spur. Sadly the furnace had been tapped off it. My place had been fully re-wired in the last 20 years. Having the full-monty dedicated spur as suggested by our deaaler paid real dividends. The earth spike and cable went in first (how could I forget - I banged it in, 2 metres of it, into rock), with the sparky doing all of the connection work. Connection of the rest happened soon after.
If you haven't already had the earth done per spec, I'd recommend you consider and implement immediately. It is the foundation. I would expect speccing the remaining work to be done at the same time will also pay dividends for you. You're really only playing with about 50% of what's available, currently (no pun intended).
regards
The house is about 6 years old. Its probably about 20m of cabling to get from where the spurs start (main distribution board) to where the power comes into the house (meter box on outside wall of garage). The cheap way would be to duct the cable across the garage ceiling and down the wall to behind the meter box but the proper (tidy) way would either involve digging up a concrete floor or pulling a mass of lining off the garage wall and ceiling. Since the system sounds fine now I cannot justify wholesale reconstruction but I might get a price for the cheap option when next the outlaw visits. AFAIK, the current earth rod is up to current specs.
Steve
Posted on: 24 July 2007 by Rico
quote:
Since the system sounds fine now I cannot justify wholesale reconstruction
I understand and recognise your logic. As they say, though, 'you don't know what you don't know'.
What about your earth cable x-sectional area?
Posted on: 24 July 2007 by Stevea
No idea. Will measure.
Steve
Posted on: 25 July 2007 by Stevea
quote:
Originally posted by robert-:
quote:
Naim distributors spec sheet to install a mains spur
what is this? and were can you see it/get it?
AFAIK the one I have only applies to New Zealand (and probably Australia) and it has the look of something put together by the dealer/importer rather than an official Naim document. In fact, the word 'Naim' does not appear on it.
Steve
Posted on: 25 July 2007 by Stevea
quote:
Originally posted by Rico:
What about your earth cable x-sectional area?
A diameter (copper only) of 4 mm, which gives 50.27 sq mm.
Steve
Posted on: 25 July 2007 by Rico
Steve - that's the standard conductor size. If you refer to the design you'll note something like 10mm (dia) cable. You've got as much spur as will fit in a half-spur glass.
robert- - the design down here would not be transferrable to your country as the electrical regulations/requirements would undoubtedly be different. I am sure the originator of the design would be less than happy to see his sheet traversing the globe/ether! Best suggestion is talk to your local dealer or distributor - they may have done the hard yards and have a design to suit your safety, the local regulations, and your system. Yes, in that order!
Posted on: 25 July 2007 by Stevea
quote:
Originally posted by Rico:
Steve - that's the standard conductor size. If you refer to the design you'll note something like 10mm (dia) cable. .....
The spec that Chris supplied me only mentions a 50mm earth cable.
<QUOTE>
EARTH.... The direction of the earth wire is also audible. There is a 50mm wire available from "BICC cables". This should allow the cable direction to be identified. The 0 m mark should be at the earth spike and X m mark at the fuse board end. It is important the connection at the spike is ...........
<END QUOTE>
He sent me this spec sheet 2 years ago.
Steve
Posted on: 25 July 2007 by Rico
quote:
I am sure the originator of the design would be less than happy to see his sheet traversing the globe/ether!
Posted on: 25 July 2007 by Stevea
That's why the quote was incomplete.
Besides, since there is no name affixed to the single sheet spec the originator can only be guessed at, as can their views. The sheet does not apply outside NZ (+ Aus?) anyway.
Steve
Posted on: 25 July 2007 by Rico
(laughing) - what is it with you guys with the half-spurs?!
Posted on: 25 July 2007 by Jim Ashton
Fascinating - I had no idea that NA Distributors supplied a spec sheet for a mains spur. I put mine in myself using some leftover cooker cable about 12 years ago (before it became naughty to do that without a B.Sparky - but I did have prior work experience as a sparky's mate) and haven't given it much thought since.
I should probably look into the earthing arrangements... but right now I can't be bothered.
OK?
Jim
Posted on: 10 August 2007 by Hutch
To update, I now have a quote from my electrician for the mains spur, but it is 12% above the cost of a hiline. I suppose it's best to do the hiline first.
Will the mains spur be similar upgrade to a hiline, or am I expecting too much?
Thanks
Don
Posted on: 10 August 2007 by seagull
Blimey your sparkies are expensive (or hi-lines are cheaper in NZ)
I'm having mine done as I write this! (I'm at work, the sparky is giving me regular updates by phone). Total cost about half a hi-line.
Overall improvement expected to be greater than a hi-line (I've heard one but not in my system - it's on the wish list) reason being it will improve EVERYTHING. The hi-line will only improve CD playback.
I had spurs put in the last nest and the improvement was large.
Posted on: 10 August 2007 by Rico
seagull, the typical dwelling down here is much larger than in UK; couple that with the high cost of copper and soon the cost of spur mounts up, as cabling distances are greater. As an example, my earth cable (board to earth spike) was about 40 metres - I'd hate to think what that would cost nowadays.
The spur is still at least a hicap's improvement. Magnified in a high-res system. Don, I don't think you're expecting too much. Is there a Naimee near you with a spur installed? Simple demo is to plug the whole system into an extension cord and plug it in to a standard outlet elsewhere in the house. Pick your jaw up from the floor, and restore the system to its spur. Then cool your fingers with a mist of liquid, lest your burn them in your hurry to dial your electrician, and book that spur installation.
Interesting question about highline vs spur, though.
Posted on: 11 August 2007 by Hutch
Thanks Seagull & Rico - my Naim supplier also tells me I should expect better than a Hi-line.
I'll report back when I have made a decision, but would value hearing from you Seagull on how you find your new spur.
Thanks
Don
Posted on: 12 August 2007 by Rico
<shakes head> - I dunno Don, what are you waiting for? you've had recommendations from your dealer, stong supportive info in the form of experiences of punters that have done it *down here*... the exchange rate's dropping, inflation and the worldwide demand for copper are driving your prices up. Why not wait another year or two!
Posted on: 25 August 2007 by Hutch
Time to report back now my main spur is in place. Yes it was definitely worth doing, sound is more real all round, but notice bass in particular is much tighter.
Thanks Rico for ensuring I followed thru.
Regards
Don
Posted on: 27 August 2007 by Rico
congratulations, Don!
you've addressed one of the fundamentals for your system - you'll find this is a "go directly to start, collect $200" moves - you're now avoiding direct experience of the many of the threads you'll read "my system's sounding shite" etc etc, and further upgrades will be enhanced, rather than revealing weaknesses. Easy.
best regards
Posted on: 07 September 2007 by Hutch
After being very pleased with the mains spur I added a hi-line. That was well worth doing, but interestingly the mains spur out performs the hi-line by about 2 to 1. This is what my dealer advised I would find - he was so correct. I have also today added a new Sound Organisation rack. That has given improvement too, mainly I suspect by keeping a better spacing between the black boxes and allowing my Hi-line to hang free. I think I had better settle back and enjoy some music before more upgraditis hits.
Regards
Don
Posted on: 11 September 2007 by JonathanP
Could someone post a copy of said instructions? I was planning on a separate spur since the whyole house is being rewired anyway, but far better to do it "right".
