Genesis - curios enquiry

I am a big Genesis fan all the way from Trespass to Duke with both Gabriel and Collins taking lead vocals depending on the album.

The studio albums Trick of a Tail, Wind and Wuthering and Duke were all with Phil on lead vocals and are excellent. Trick of a Tail is one of my very favourite albums and loved by many Genesis fans. The others two are very well respected.

The live album, Seconds Out, is IMHO the best Genesis album. It picks their best songs from Gabriel and Collins albums and they just play them brilliantly with Collins doing all the vocals. The drumming on the album is fantastic. When Collins gets behind the drum set, there is no better rock drummer as far as I am concerned. This album is their masterpiece.

Other Collins vocal albums And Then There Were Three and Abacab have some good moments but are more poppy.

that album was quite good - and it's starting at the start (Gabriel departure - Collins steps up to take main vocal)

IMO though Genesis thereafter and especially into the 80's with Phil C calling most of the shots is like oil & water - a bad combo

Quick get the recommendation in before ROTF arrives.



Dean..

quote:

Originally posted by fathings cat:
Growing up in the 80's put me right of Phil Collins, however out of curiosity was any of his Genesis stuff any good and if so where would be a good place to start?

Regards

Simple answer no - none of it was any good - some of the worst drivel every committed to vinyl and there were a few tracks that weren't even good enough to qualify as drivel.

Trespass was a superb elpee - after that Genesis made the quite respectable Foxtrot and the satisfactory Selling England. Their last album that had any highlights on it was Lamb Lies Down, but it was not a great record.

After that came Trick of the Tail, I had a copy but gave it away as I knew I'd never play it again and there was a danger that somebody who visited the house might try to play it. What an absolutely dreadful record - probably the worst disc I have ever owned; I don't think it had one decent note on it. The worst part was the vocals - if you can call them vocals - excruciating beyond belief.

So there you are - my balanced view - not shared by all I'll grant you.

Do yourself a favour and buy something else - anything else.

ATB Rotf

Hope that's OK, Dean, and I've not given too much away about how I feel about PC muzak

Mr Gabriel is different kettle of fish and made some excellent records.

Just ignore him!
He has a complex about PC, the trick cyclist sessions don't seem to be working though.

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:
Just ignore him!

Everybody does and who can blame them

I would start with the first record.

Trespass is really awesome.

My favourites are:

* Nursery Crime
* Foxtrot
* Lamb
* Selling

Lamb is really a masterpiece, but one should give it some time to "catch" the awesome-ness of this fantastic concept-art-record...for me on apr with The Wall..

Wind and Wuthering is for me the only post Gabriel album worth dusting off shelf space for. If you want a fine example of slick pop rock it’s got to be Genesis (the album titled Genesis that is!). None can hold a candle to what went before. Until ’75 they held the franchise on dark and sinister, wrapped up in beautiful melodies. Often copied but never bettered. Post Gabriel they were in a transition to becoming another band, post Hackett you can pretty much regard them as two different bands, each very good at what they did. I would walk miles to see one but wouldn’t cross the road for the other. Personal preference, each to our own.

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
[QUOTE]

Hope that's OK, Dean, and I've not given too much away about how I feel about PC muzak

Mr Gabriel is different kettle of fish and made some excellent records.

It OK ROTF I've been sending telepathic messages all morning and will continue to do so so next week you'll be nipping into HMV to buy some lovely Phil Collins era Genesis, my evil plan will not be foiled I tell you.



Dean...

With Glasto coverage in mind - and seeing Spinal Tap in particular - I am reminded reading this thread of the review of ST's Shark Sandwich album - "Sh1t Sandwich more like"

That kind of sums up post Gabriel Genesis for me

It depends what you are looking for from Genesis.

'Foxtrot' (1972) is a very good place to start, at the heart of prog rock.

'The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway' (1974) is liked by the Peter Gabriel fans as it has his strongest input, strange narrative and dominated by his lyrical style. It does not sound like a band, but a vocalist with backing musicians, very like Pink Floyd's 'The Wall' in that respect. Although there are a few good tracks, especially live, I really do not like this album at all.

'Wind and Wuthering' (1976) is possibly the best album for fans of Steve Hackett, the second album with Collins on vocals, but sounds closer to 'Selling England by the Pound' and 'Foxtrot'. Collins drumming is also at a peak on 'Wind and Wuthering' as he was playing with lots of other bands, and getting into jazz-rock. Definitely my favorite album by them.

'Duke' (1980) is very good too, having all started solo work which allowed them to express their more pop aspects, well for Collins, although his album would be released later. 'Duke' is much more a rock album than any other post Gabriel album.

'Trespass' (1970, pre Hackett and Collins), 'Nursery Crime' (1971), 'Selling England by the Pound' (1974) are all good, as is 'Trick of the Tail' (1975/6), although quite a light album.

'Seconds Out' (1976/7) is a very good live album indeed, and if you like live albums, this is one of the best. I agree with Lontano about Collins on this album, and also a tiny bit of Bill Bruford. Their other live albums are nothing special.

Avoid 'And Then There Were Three' (1978), it is pretty bland and edges on pop, some songs are good, but the album has a insipid feel.

Definitely avoid 'Abacab' (1982), one of the worst albums I own, yes 'Dodo' and 'Abacab' are good tracks live, but this is neither rock or pop, they were in limbo at this point. I have no idea what Hugh Padgham did as producer other than set up he mic's for Collins kit, a completely aimless album. After that they became a pop band, as it sounds like you already know.

For me Gensis have not stood the test of time as well as bands like Yes, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, King Crimson and Van Der Graaf Generator. There is a lot of influence of English pastoral music, Vaughan Williams, and also a little Bach. As musicians they were not quite in the league of Yes, Led Zeppelin and King Crimson and did not have the raw power and the rough edges of King Crimson and Van Der Graaf Generator.

Steve Hackett is, and was an excellent guitarist, his early solo albums sound more like Genesis than the band did at that point, but then for me he was what appealed to me about the band.

Phil Collins was an amazing drummer, if nothing special as a vocalist. Mike Rutherford is bit of an underrated bass player, solid and melodic, and a good rhythm guitarist, Tony Banks was not in the league of Rick Wakeman, Keith Emmerson, or some of the other 70's keyboard players, good, but nothing special.

Peter Gabriel gave the band a lot of character and a definitive lyrical style, but I find him overrated. Yes quirky, but too much into whimsy and lacking emotional depth. Their lyrics, during and after Gabriel never dealt with emotion (until Collins started slipping in the odd tracks about his first divorce), and were mostly abstract parables, and for me make their music a little distant.

I must also say that I do not like Peter Gabriel's solo albums, so many takes, and so much production that they sound nothing like a band playing, but then they are albums driven by a singer and songwriter and not by a musician.

Sorry about this folks but I think that to a large extent I agree with ROTF. I thought the Gabriel albums were in a different league to the Collins ones. Trespass, Foxtrot, Selling England and Lamb lies down are all albums I can still listen to and enjoy almost any time. However I think all the Collins albums are dull and boring.

I'd like to go on but as a former tenant of the town of Harlow, in the interest of humanity I've been told I must go.

Pete L.

You guys do realise that PC was on all the albums (except 1) as well, he sang on them too. Surely that would have made them ALL dull and boring.
Of course there is a possibility that ALL Genesis albums are actually dull and boring?

quote:

After that came Trick of the Tail, I had a copy but gave it away as I knew I'd never play it again and there was a danger that somebody who visited the house might try to play it. What an absolutely dreadful record - probably the worst disc I have ever owned; I don't think it had one decent note on it. The worst part was the vocals - if you can call them vocals - excruciating beyond belief.

TOTT has always been my favourite album by Genesis, but up until a year ago, I also found the vocals to be harsh and verging on unlistenable. They did something in the studio to make them sound different...probably pressed the "spacial" button whilst recording. For a long time, I've used this recording as one of my main test lps. After upgrades and system changes it's only recently I've found that the vocals are capable of being sweet. I was going to start a new thread based just on this lp, asking what people actually heard from side 1 track 1....but I forgot. It would have been interesting to compare what we're all hearing and at what systen level.

The Duffy lp is the same. She now sounds sweet.

quote:

Of course there is a possibility that ALL Genesis albums are actually dull and boring?

Hey BigH - what have you got against Genesis - there are some very bright moments on the first elpee, check out The Serpent and Trespass is amazing. The original Genesis didn't have a drummer. BTW if you use a special plug-in for Logic Pro on the Mac then it can suppress the background noise on later releases (a sort of drumming sound).



What I like so much about Trespass is that the drum playing is fairly soft, which complements the record's atmosphere, and I like a record with a bit of atmosphere.

ATB Rotf

I was only saying there is a possibility , I didn't say it was my opinion.

Trespass and Nursery Cryme are the only two Genesis albums that get a regular play by me. Favourite Genesis track; The Knife.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Dane:
.... Favourite Genesis track; The Knife.

Richard, sir, you are a man of great taste.

I don't believe it! No one's mentioned 'Genesis Live'. One of my all time favourite progressive rock albums. All the great pre-Lamb tracks are captured here on one album. And then there's always the 'unaccompanied bass pedal solo from Michael Rutherford'.

Regards,
CB

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Dane:
Trespass and Nursery Cryme are the only two Genesis albums that get a regular play by me. Favourite Genesis track; The Knife.

The Knife, yes, it is really something.

I think I have at least a dozen different versions and issues of Trespass on CDs and some LPs too, Japanese reissues, stuff like that.

I once spent a complete summer holiday in the secondary school to try to translate the Lamb to Hungarian, but I could not finish it, it was way too difficult for me .

Interesting no-one's mentioned "Selling England By The Pound". I wonder why?

steve

quote:

Originally posted by Paper Plane:
Interesting no-one's mentioned "Selling England By The Pound". I wonder why?

steve

Great album. I never mentioned it as I interpreted the original question to be asking about the Genesis albums with Phil on vocals - Trick onwards, not the Gabriel led albums.

Quite right! 'Selling England..' is superb. Although it does have 1 dodgy track on it... which features Phil Collins singing...! (Was this a warning of things to come??)

'The Lamb' is amazing. Great instrumental playing from all 4, pls Peter Gabriel's words.

'Trick of the Tail' & 'Wind and Wuthering' are both good. After that things started to drop off, IMHO.

IanM

The lamb lies down on Broadway, it's crude and lysergic, and I just love epilogues.

quote:

Originally posted by Paper Plane:
Interesting no-one's mentioned "Selling England By The Pound". I wonder why?

steve

This was for me at the time the high point of the best line up and a perfect fit for their progression and the times. But it hasn’t aged well to my ears. It just seems a little bit too olde chocolate box to me as a piece, although there are some memorable tracks – and one in particular. When you compare it to what preceded it and proceeded it, SEBTP appears to exist in a rather prosaic bubble. The lamb has stood the test of time better I think.