Lingo lead for Naim system

For a while I used to unplug my Lingo when I wanted to play CD's, but I soon found out that the Lingo is a bit like Naim amps in that it takes about 1 full week to warm up, even after a short power down.

I now have the Lingo on a separate ring & put up with the hash it generates, which is incidentally a lot less now that it has a different electric circuit to draw from.

Bob.

Mickey Dale

I'm not so sure that the connector would be the solution to the (nonexistent?) mains problem anyway as it is (I think) intended to sort out grounding problems involving ground loops when used with Naim (CD)gear. However I must add that I have used a Lingo for some 8 years and would not consider it to be a problem at all except for the claims made on the conference. My dealer (who sells both Naim and Linn) does not believe the Lingo creates problems for Naim amps. Note that I do not own a CD player (where it is claimed by some that there is an obvious negative effect) and the Lingo has no effect on my Naim tuner.

I also inquired with Linn and they claim that there have been NO changes to the Lingo since its introduction, so if this is true then newer Lingos should create the same effect as the older variety (that is if the problem even exists).

By the way, if I remember correctly from the old forum, the Valhalla was considered worse than the Lingo although this may have been for performance, not mains hash. However, some claimed the Basik power supply superior to both!!

Paul

I intended no cheek. I am only reporting what others have said. In fact, I do remember that one contributor to this forum who owns both LP12/Lingo and CDS2 (I believe) in an 52-active-NBL system (recently improved with a 500), that he heard NO EFFECT from the Lingo in or out of the system. He does however have the Conn 401/E if I recall correctly.

Paul

P.S. Sproggle? Is this really your name?

With the knowledge of your feedback I have just ordered a lead from my dealer. He reckons it will take about 2 weeks to arrive. I will report back when it has been fitted.

I will try as many permutations as I can, Lingo in same circuit, in different circuit etc. etc.

Bob.

Now if only Naim would solve this problem by providing an Armageddon that could switch between 45 and 33 or even if one could special order a 45rpm Armageddon (of course you would then need two turntables). But then I could get rid of the Lingo and any lingering doubts about it.

Paul

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Now if only Naim would solve this problem by providing an Armageddon that could switch between 45 and 33 or even if one could special order a 45rpm Armageddon (of course you would then need two turntables). But then I could get rid of the Lingo and any lingering doubts about it.

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An Armageddon is essentially just a transformer with a phasing capacitor in series with the mains. The RPM speed is set by the mechanical ratios of the pulley, inner platter and the mains frequency. The 45 rpm adaptor of olde did this by changing the diameter of the pulley. As the Geddon does not synthesize the A/C waveform as does the Lingo or the PS Powerplant (and thusly the 50/60 Hz mains frequency is immutable), there is no way it could allow by itself a 45 rpm version, anymore than the Basik supply could without some mechanical alterations elsewhere. The price of another Geddon would also buy a P3 (as in Rega) and a decent cartridge. Having said that, the vinyl I have that is truly an audiophile spectacular are the 45 rpm single remixes of mid-80s music (if you haven't heard this version of 'Relax', or the FYC 'Johnnie come home', or Animotions 'Obsession', you have not heard them at all). And none of them can I now play on my Geddoned LP12.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo

http://homepages.go.com/~rontoolsie/index1.html

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Having said that, the vinyl I have that is truly an audiophile spectacular are the 45 rpm single remixes of mid-80s music (if you haven't heard this version of 'Relax', or the FYC 'Johnnie come home', or Animotions 'Obsession', you have not heard them at all). And none of them can I now play on my Geddoned LP12.

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Ron:

Oh, now I realize why no 45rpm Armageddon is possible. (I wasn't really thinking before - it was just wishful thinking).

Your comment above was the reason I purchased a Lingo (plus at the time there was no Naim dealer nearby with an Armageddon). I guess you are unable to play the 45rpm Classic releases. They do for classical and jazz what the 12" single did for rock and dance in the 80's/90's.

Paul

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I was wondering about this. In the US is the motor pulley of a different diameter to the European one for use with a Armageddon or Basik PSU? Or am I missing something out here?

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Yes and no.... the Valhalled LP12 I believe comes with the same diameter motor pulley regardless- because the Valhalla resynthesizes the AC frequency to a fixed constant (50 Hz I think)no matter what AC frequency is coming in. But the Basik power supplies are NOT (of course) independent of the mains frequency, as these use AC motors.So there exist both 50 and 60 Hz versions. Which makes for an extra expense when people who live in 60Hz countries upgrade from the Valhalla to the Geddon... they must then buy a 60Hz motor (actually I think they have to buy the Basik P/S) in addition to the Geddon, as all of the Valhalled ones are 50Hz. Very early Valhallas came in both 50 and 60 Hz versions.... I think the latter suffered very high failure rates and were discontinued. Somebody correct me if I am wrong...........

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo

http://homepages.go.com/~rontoolsie/index1.html

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I think the latter suffered very high failure rates and were discontinued. Somebody correct me if I am wrong

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I'd love to know this also, since I'm considering modifying a Valhalla to do 67.5Hz (i.e. 45RPM)

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com

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I'd love to know this also, since I'm considering modifying a Valhalla to do 67.5Hz (i.e. 45RPM)

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Back in the early days of PC's (and maybe still even today) several vendors were known to juice up the 25MHz and 33 Mhz systems they supplied for review by making them run circa 30 and 40 Mhz with a non-approved 'upgrade' of the crystal oscillator. The CPUs were not rated to be ran any higher than their published speed, and when so done, again were subject to a high thermally induced failure rate. I wonder if the same problem would occur in the Valhalla? If you do '45 rpm' a valhalla, consider heatsinking it and placing it outside of the LP12 chassis.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo

http://homepages.go.com/~rontoolsie/index1.html

quote:

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...because the Valhalla resynthesizes the AC frequency to a fixed constant (50 Hz I think)no matter what AC frequency is coming in.

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Ron;

I have a "old" Valhalla board (kindly given for my birthday by the originator of this thread as it happens; cheers Bob) which has separate input terminals and fuses for 50hz/60hz.

I'm watching this thread with great interest as I'm intrigued with the idea of using it with my Heybrook TT2, which has the same motor (reputedly) as the LP12. However, since the Heybrook plinth is essentially a solid block of MDF milled out to provide space for motor, arm stub and subchassis, the Valhalla will have to be in an outboard box with a 4-core cable between it and the TT unit.

I would appreciate any opinions as to whether I am likely to get greater benefits by keeping the cable as short as possible, or longer, thereby allowing the Valhalla to be kept as far as possible away from anything else.

Which makes me think: How is the Armageddon wired into an LP12? Obvious thing would be a AC-grade DIN-terminated lead captive to the LP12, wired straight into the motor, but I'm probably way off here. Reason I ask is that if the Valhalla works, the Geddon should...

Then I need to find a way to fit a Linn bearing to the thing. Must be mad...

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

I'm planning to remote my Valhalla also, since it now sits in close proximity to my Prefix, and hopefully produce a 45 RPM version.

The interface to the LP12 is the issue I haven't resolved yet, the obvious route initally was to use a Lingo lead / PCB but the ludicrous price Linn want for this makes it a non-starter (>100 UKP).

I'm not sure what Naim use for the Armageddon, but it would be nice to route the on/off control from the switch in the LP12, for ease of use.

I posted some technical info in another thread, some time ago, with regard to the rough circuitry on a Valhalla, I've pasted it below, in case you're interested.

-------------------
Bored (or 45RPM from a Valhalla)
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Some of this is technical, so if this sort of thing bores you, please skip this post.
I've been taking a closer look at the Valhalla board this afternoon, on account of being sick, and having a severe ear infection that prevents me enjoying the Hi-Fi .

As mentioned above I'd been considering remoting this board from the LP12, something that should be very easy to do. I just need to find a suitable enclosure that doesn't look too ugly next to the rest of my kit.

The circuit consists of a 3.2768 MHz crystal, that is divided down, via a 16 bit binary ripple counter to produce a 50Hz square wave.

This is then actively filtered, to remove the harmonic content and produce a sine wave, which is then fed to a push-pull high voltage amplifier stage.

The output of this is then AC coupled to the motor, phase splitting being accomplished via a capacitor.

I see no reason why the crystal value could not be scaled, in order to provide the 67.5 Hz needed to run the turntable at 45 RPM. A 4.42368 MHz crystal would be required, something one could have made, to special order, for about 5-10 ukp.

The only problem I can foresee is that the passive phase split for the motor would require changing for each speed, and switching at this part of the circuit would be more difficult to accomplish safely. Switching between two crystals would be fairly easy.

I shall probably investigate this further, once I have the PCB remote an accesible outside of my LP12.

Other options I've considered are looking at the motor operating voltage. I have no idea at what voltage the Valhalla runs the LP12 motor, but one of the things a lot of the alternative supplies do is reduce the operating voltage, in order to reduce vibration. This could be accomplished, passively, quite easily at the output of the Valhalla, using the scheme used in Armageddon style passive supplies. This could provide some sonic benefits at very low cost.

Additionally, a check of how accurate the phase split is to the motor could provide some options for 'tuning' and performance improvement.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com