Naim vs Weiss -- VFM

What's wrong with an Akurate DS? Similar money, one box, interfaces naturally to a networked computer, no need for HiFace interfaces, or drivers, or cables, or fancy mega-buck powerleads, powersupplies or upgrades, untethers your PC ..

quote:

So -- does Weiss sound THAT bad?

only a demo can resolve that for you.

Please report back your findings.

-Patrick

AMA - both are very good Dacs but with different voicing. IMHO the dac2 is more Naim like than the 202.

James

My Weiss Dac2, kettle lead, Canare interconnect and computer firewire cable sound just fine, certainly preferable to my Ndac, Hiface, DC1, Hiline . I'm sure Dac202, powerline, hiline, and wanky firewire are better, but I'm not interested. Just as Ndac/555ps, HiFace, DC1, powerline, hiline are better, but I'm not interested. In this context Akurate DS is an attractive proposition.

quote:

only a demo can resolve that for you.

That's the point -- Weiss is not available in Dubai

quote:

AMA - both are very good Dacs but with different voicing. IMHO the dac2 is more Naim like than the 202.

So what is the DAC202 voicing?
Are there any tests against KDS?

quote:

What's wrong with an Akurate DS?

likesmusic, there is definitely nothing wrong with ADS as it offers a very attractive VFM.
But I have two critical claims against it:

1. My current system sounds better than ADS (not a direct A/B test but say one hour difference in listening between ADS and my home system)

2. I was poisoned with prolonged KDS listening and there is no way I can put up with ADS now If I take a Linn way one day that will be a KDS.

Shame a dealer won't send you one on approval. I can't agree about the 202 voicing being different, I have both a DAC2 and 202 the latter simply resolves more from whatever I use with it - as it should, it costs more. But the voicing does not strike me as different.

They are both excellent, like Keith I preferred the DAC2 to the nDAC.

Joe

quote:

Shame a dealer won't send you one on approval.

There are no Weiss dealers in Dubai.
They spot quite a big region to comprise Dubai and the regional distributor resides in ... Hong Kong which is twice away from Dubai comparing to Switzerland Do you think I can have a chance if I call them?

quote:

They are both excellent, like Keith I preferred the DAC2 to the nDAC.

Joe, did you try nDAC with external PS?

When I got a demo nDAC I run it across a number of reputable DACs and it didn't dazzle me except that it recovered much more details from the same transport. For example I would never switch Transporter for a bare nDAC for the sonic reasons.

But adding XPS changed a lot. It lifts its performance up to the new league.
It's much more than what XPS does with CDX2.

AMA,

At the same time as comparing the DAC2 and nDAC, we heard the nDAC with the 555PS but not the XPS2. The point of the comparison was that DAC2 and bare nDAC are the same cost give or take.

The 555PS lifted performance but not to the extent I would have felt justifiable for such a large increase in cost. I would be comparing it with other solutions at that level.

Joe

quote:

I would be comparing it with other solutions at that level.

Joe, I would say Weiss DAC202 and Lavry Gold are already in the price range of nDAC/555PS.
If they can compete at a cheaper cost this will only make them stronger on the market.
Some people end up with Lavry Gold in cost-no-object solutions leaving much more expensive Scarlatti DAC behind.

So what was your experience with nDAC/555PS against DAC2 or DAC202?
And what was the transport for nDAC (I believe both weiss were run through FW).

quote:

Originally posted by AMA:

quote:

I would be comparing it with other solutions at that level.

Joe, I would say Weiss DAC202 and Lavry Gold are already in the price range of nDAC/555PS.
If they can compete at a cheaper cost this will only make them stronger on the market.
Some people end up with Lavry Gold in cost-no-object solutions leaving much more expensive Scarlatti DAC behind.

So what was your experience with nDAC/555PS against DAC2 or DAC202?
And what was the transport for nDAC (I believe both weiss were run through FW).

Suffice to say, I use the 202. I have not done exhaustive comparisons with the nDAC/555PS as I was not engaged enough by the audition of that combination when compared with the DAC2.

The nDAC fed by optical and coax (HiFace).

Joe

quote:

The nDAC fed by optical and coax (HiFace).

Hiface/Optical could possible veil nDAC/555PS performance...

quote:

Weiss is not available in Dubai

Then you probably shouldn't consider it, if you are only going to be able to buy based on other's experience.

Seriously.... you would spend that kind of money without hearing it first? If throwing that much caution to the wind, why not just get the product you can demo, from a maker you love.

quote:

There are no Weiss dealers in Dubai.
They spot quite a big region to comprise Dubai and the regional distributor resides in ... Hong Kong Smile which is twice away from Dubai comparing to Switzerland Eek Do you think I can have a chance if I call them?

JS (or somemone like that) will sell you one i would bet. Give him your credit card #, he will charge it for the amount of the DAC plus shipping. If you dont like it, you can return it.

There must be some dealer in Europe who will do it, if you fork out the money first.

-Patrick

quote:

Naim vs Weiss

Regardless of individual comparisons... There must be extra points given the the Naim source due to the EXTRA SPECIAL nature of an ALL Naim kit.

I picked up my new 202 from Keith at Purite Audio a couple of weeks ago, he lent me a machine for quite a long home dem, I had the DAC2 before, I am extremely pleased with the 202.

quote:

The beauty of the Weiss DACs is that they have the firewire interface built in.

That begs the question of whether or not the bare firewire DAC is equal to putting a 202 between the computer and the DAC.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

Naim vs Weiss

Regardless of individual comparisons... There must be extra points given the the Naim source due to the EXTRA SPECIAL nature of an ALL Naim kit.

Clearly I'm missing something about what is so special with an ALL Naim set up. Digital front-ends are going through a significant transition and perhaps even an evolution. The Naim strategy seems confusing and aggressive in terms of so many products now becoming available.

I'd recommend working out what a user wants the ripping workflow to look like, what sound quality they are aiming for, and how many boxes they want/need to deliver that performance and functionality.

I've just gone through a front-end consolidation after a few years playing with PCs and DACs. I found there are just too many variables in terms of players, parameters, file formats, and at the end of the day if just didn't sound as good as a single box streamer.

Graham


Graham

quote:

I found there are just too many variables in terms of players, parameters, file formats, and at the end of the day if just didn't sound as good as a single box streamer.

Graham, I have the same feeling. Linn did it in a much simpler and elegant way.

Just simpler.

The disadvantage of the Linn way show up almost immediately in a typical living room. You need to buy that #&%%!# extra DAC anyway.

I've got the Airport Express for wireless AirPlay, the IPTV-box, the MacMini used for ripped DVD-movies, the Sonos used for internet radio, the HDX and all of them with a digital out. And the Nintendo Wii.

Now the Naim way of doing things suddenly is the simple elegant one. Buy one hellishly good DAC that eliminate the problems of SPDIF (with the right cable) and connect everything to that. I use only one input on the 252, the hiline from the DAC.

The HDX is a complete and very nice solution for digital music with its built in ripper and extended metadata. It is so simple to use and require nothing more than inserting the CD. You dont need a computer and you never need to learn about the ratsnest of incompatibilities they call UPnP.

Some day we may be able to purchase the large catalog of music in equal (or better) quality audio (over CD quality) for download over the net. But at the moment this day is not even on the horizon and the only way to get best SQ is buying the CD and then ripping it.

quote:

Seriously.... you would spend that kind of money without hearing it first? If throwing that much caution to the wind, why not just get the product you can demo, from a maker you love.

Patrick, you are too fast with your line of thoughts!
You ask me a question and immediately answer it without my contribution

When it comes down to the product like Weiss which is difficult (but possible) to audition I used to glean as many responses as possible in order to understand is it worth my efforts to AUDITION it or not. That's it. I'm not going to buy product BLIND.

I used to travel across Europe and if I have a plan to audition Weiss -- I can do it. At a cost of my time and my money.

Buying a product (when you identified the one) is not an issue and Chicago is possibly not the nearest/cheapest solution.

quote:

The disadvantage of the Linn way show up almost immediately in a typical living room. You need to buy that #&%%!# extra DAC anyway.

jlarsson, can you elaborate more on the drawbacks of KDS in a "typical living room"?

quote:

Originally posted by AMA:

quote:

The disadvantage of the Linn way show up almost immediately in a typical living room. You need to buy that #&%%!# extra DAC anyway.

jlarsson, can you elaborate more on the drawbacks of KDS in a "typical living room"?

AMA stated his "disadvantages". With the *DS you can only play the maid on your UPnP AV server - with the nDAC you have the ability to use digital from HTPC / PS3 / Satellite / Sonos / etc / etc.

Eloise

quote:

I've got the Airport Express for wireless AirPlay, the IPTV-box, the MacMini used for ripped DVD-movies, the Sonos used for internet radio, the HDX and all of them with a digital out. And the Nintendo Wii.

Now the Naim way of doing things suddenly is the simple elegant one. Buy one hellishly good DAC that eliminate the problems of SPDIF (with the right cable) and connect everything to that. I use only one input on the 252, the hiline from the DAC.

AH ....well I have a Home Theater receiver for all this stuff which has built in 192/24 32bit DACS which aren't far behind the DS for as many digital signals as you like, including DVD-A and SACD HiRes music. That goes into the A/V unity gain input on the 552.

For HQ ripped CD replay my Linn DS is plumbed straight into the 552 on what use to be the CD input.

So many ways to skin a cat and clear that Naim is not the only solution for that.

BTW HiRes downloads are growing in supply. Try HD Tracks, Linn, Naim, B&W ministry of sound, 2L and so on.

regards
Geoff