A New Preamp to Match the NAP500?

I would also hazard a guess that the transport mechanism in the CDS2 is luckily better than that in the CDS1.

Why not have the NAP 500 re-released in a large version of the green-style boxes? Then there would be even less pressure on Naim to produce something to aesthetically and monetarily match.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

I havn't got a NAP500 yet but I am intrigued to learn how the Naim cosies work. Do they need to be connected together with matching wool or is it a purely phyco-acustical thing like the rest of my system ?

I believe that Naim once said the CDS1 transport is far superior to the CDS2 transport, so i'm sticking to the trade-in/recovery theory at the moment.

Cheers

Don

Regarding the Naim-cosies, remember to knit ventilation holes for the NAP500 heatsinks and for the CD/preamp infra-red eye.

You also need to use matching wool. I know it sounds tenuous, but experimenting with wool colour and thickness will reap rewards.

As well as the psycho-acoustic effects (an removal of electromagnetic smog), Naim-cosies will dampen the effects of air-bourne vibrations.

Me? I use maroon double-chunky-knit cosies.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

In any event I am struggling to think how the best (CDS2/52) could be made better and offer the same performance for money.

I think hifi prices are mad enough anyway and the industry has got away with riduculous pricing for far too long. This is especially relevant with American kit which (when imported) is just a complete rip off for the performance offered.

It's time for the consumer to fight back on this protected industry and force the dealers and manufacturers to lower their prices.

Having said all that I think the majority of Naim products offer phenomenal performance for the money (Nait, CDS2, 52, 01 and SBLs spring to mind). I am much less convinced by the 500 in given that most customers will need to upgrade their speakers to take full advantage of the 500's potential.

Dev

ps. I noticed from your profile you have Wilson speakers. I have been interested to hear them at the end of a Naim system as I feel they could offer the best of Flat & Round Earth. I have heard them sound magnificent in the past, do you find the 135's to have sufficient power for them? And how is the bass, is it tight and tuneful like a NBL? Can you hear the port? Do they work with modern techno (i,e s the bass under control) - sorry too many questions!

I am indeed curious about naim's future plans, but agree quite strongly with Dev about the 52/CDS2 combo. In the 500 it is obvious naim had to make a powerhouse amplifier to work with a lot of todays difficult to drive speakers, if they wanted to appeal to a wider range of customers. But I cannot see anything but an aesthetic drive to make a new pre and a CD player that is actually NEEDED the same way a 500 was to those owning speakers that 135s couldn't quite drive, although it is certainly possible both of these products could be improved with newer technology. But would they be so much better that they waranted a very costly upgrade? Perhaps to some, but...

I have already found unthinkable levels of performance with my CDS2/52/250/ACT 2 system that has me sitting on the floor jaws agape for 5-10 hours a day. Just a little bit more bass control than the 250 can offer and I'd be in total ecstacy. Right now its seriously affacting my relationships because when people they complain I don't sound interested in talking to them (this is because the music is so, damn fine, so hyper-fine). Slot a 500 into this system and you might start to wonder if becoming a formless blob with ears sitting in a glass jar in front of the stereo might be a better existence.

Of course they could use all silver wiring, plutonium nitride transisters and diamond casing and produce something as costly as the apollo mission, but remeber that man made it to the moon just a few years before naim came out with its first pre, so technology WAS pretty advanced, even back then in Naim's stone age.

One has to, I think, reach their audio goal, and then stop chasing the audio rabbit and enjoy, with only the ocassional recapping or new interconnect or new component, possibly once every ten years, or the whole audio thing becomes a bain and not a pleasure.

Just my views,

dave≤

quote:

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It's time for the consumer to fight back on this protected industry and force the dealers and manufacturers to lower their prices.
[QUOTE]

These are TOYS, man. If you can't afford to pay, don't play. Besides, if the market bears the prices, why should they lower them? I bet the decision to come out with the 500 was drivin in part by a market analysis showing that people ARE prepared to pay these prices.

[QUOTE]
Having said all that I think the majority of Naim products offer phenomenal performance for the money (Nait, CDS2, 52, 01 and SBLs spring to mind).
[QUOTE]

Good one. I never really felt Naim stuff was overpriced. Sometimes more than I wanted to spend, but that is another matter.

[QUOTE]
I am much less convinced by the 500 in given that most customers will need to upgrade their speakers to take full advantage of the 500's potential.

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This is a bit daffy, although the argument works for me and upgrading. An upgrade of my amp isn't worth the cost given the inferior CD player I use (a walkman), and upgrading my Walkman isn't worth the cost becuase of the inferior amp I use. Humm...

- Greg

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Sounds just like I feel sometimes - nice one Dave.

Greg - You are having a laugh aren't you - or do you have some kind of Super Walkman that trounces all?

P.

i wish i could afford a 500 based active system... but i am actually very happy with my current system anyway... in fact was happy with a 32.5/hicap/250 for a long time...

enjoy...

ken

enjoy...

I heard Wilson Witts with a CDS2/52/135s at Audio-T in Cardiff and they were good, but then they substituted a Krell 100S for the 135s and IMHO the system shot into the hyper-league. Pitch; rythm; timing; details; stage width and depth; powerful clear deep tuneful bass; pure magic.

I heard the System 5 a week later in a Krell system. Struck me as even better. So I bought the System 5 on the spot (s/h £5.5k) and decided to save for a suitable Krell power amp eg 200S or FPB 200.

Meanwhile, the 135s do drive the System 5 and do sound better IMHO than the Isobariks (which I still have). More detail, wider and deeper soundstage, better defined and more controlled bass; a better sense of reality all round.

The system still 'shouts' sometimes (some female vocals) and the bass could be more detailed and powerful as in a real concert or live gig.

i can't say i've ever noticed the port. The speakers are 4' from the rear wall and 3' from the sides.

I do enjoy the music tremendously and still prefer my current system to others i've heard with SBLs and NBLs.

My feeling is that to get the best of both worlds requires the System 5 PLUS a heafty poweramp like the Krells - oooorr the NAP 500 plus new CD/Pre amp at £30k Hmmmmmmm.

Modern Techno ??? sorry but are you suggesting that after Buddy Holly died someone kept on making music ?? (only joking but modern techno ??)

Cheers

Don

Don, you need to borrow our 500 for a few days. That'll show you something you've not heard before...

Regards,
Frank.

The 3.5 did some things better but overall but di dnot win out by a huge margin and not in all areas. The discman seemed to do textures better - I've found the Naim players to be weak in this area, at least up to and including the CDX. I'm one of these oddies who believes the CDX is better value for dollar than the CD3 or 3.5 if only because it is a much larger leap from the mass-market stuff (mass market: my discman).

Oh, I've not heard the CD5.

- Greg

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

I just don't quite understand what this cult of CDS2/52 isn't good enough is all about. I play this combo through a 250 and ACT 2s and it simply astonishes with its roller coaster ride of music and emotion with vivid and lively dynamics and superlative, class-leading soundstage and depth. It soundly trounces, even with a 250, systems twice its price I have heard. And with a 500 it would be even better.

So, why isn't a 52 good enough? What, exactly, is wrong with it? And how is a Krell or say, Wadia CD player better than a CDS2? Not expensive enough? I think naim should repackage a special edition CDS2/52 just for you, Don, with nothing different, not even the casing, and a special signature edition 30K price tag. Then would you be convinced? I am reminded of my dealer who spoke once of a customer who chose sonic frontiers over naim, when both clearly agreed the naim sounded better. He was just more impressed with the price tage and looks of the sonic frontiers.

I think all these new pre rumours are just detracting from how great the 52 really is. While some amps offer more detail, the 52 gives almost as much as the very best and the whole picture and also has guts and drive and warmth lacking in the competition.

dave

Might take you up on that, but I can't afford one right away.

Cheers,

Don

Don't get me wrong, IMHO the CDS2/52 is a superb front end and the 135s are great power amps as is the 500. There is no pressure (Ha Ha) on Naim to churn out over-priced/over-hyped kit just for the sake of satisfying a few rich kids. (I am not included in this group BTW)

I've never bought anything unless I was convinced by listening, that it brought big benefits in musical pleasure.

But to suggest that a CDS/52 is THE ultimate is IMHO a tad limmiting. For a start, what would the Naim research team do next?

More importantly, I know (well I think I know) that the last live classical concert I went to did sound better than a CDS/52/500 - soooo, I suggest there still is someway to go.

Of course, it would be nice if Naim found the Nirvana (heard that before somewhere!) of all solutions and came up with the prefect sound forever (heard that one as well somewhere!), with a CD/Pre/Power for under £10k (say) even if I had to virtually give away my kit to 'up-grade'

Meanwhile, back to the old LP12/CDS1/52/135s for another evening of (almost) total bliss

Cheers

Don

I recall a post by JV about music and reality and how the limiting factor he felt was in the dynamics of speakers and power amps and not in frequency extention into the dog whistle region or super low bass. I agree that ultimate is not possible, es pecially in commerce where planned obselescence is the order of the day. There always has to be some new development that makes it a little better. My point is that the CDS2/52 is damn near tops, subjective views on taste and presentation aside, and tha t a new preamp may not be as much of a revolution as a 500. I guess this is why JV said no new pre, just a 52.5, if anything at all. The CDS 1 was made near the dawn of digital and developments over the last ten years may have been significant. The 500 was required for tougher loads, but needed a new transistor lest it lose sound quality like many big amps. In contrast, however, I can only imagine new developments on the preamp side of things to be a little more asymptotic rather than revolutionary.

As for the name of the new pre, how about

the "NAC 52 Don Atkinson Silver Signature Edition" price 15 K GBP?

Just ribbing you, old boy!

dave

I'd be very happy to personally autograph the first (complimentary) export model for you

I agree with your views and JV's on dynamics of amplifiers and speakers being the principal limiting factors and said as much to him some 20/25 years ago after buying my first NAP160 and listening to an active 3x250/Isobarik system (with a 32 preamp!). However, he also asked if I also wanted bass that rolled along the floor and grabbed me by the legs then my whole body - and I said yes! cos thats how a good concert feels.

The 500 is getting close.......

Cheers.

Don

as JV always said, it's better to do something less ambitious very well. The 52 demonstrates this to the full, but (to put it at it's crudest)it's the ultimate tart-up of a 25 year old design.

I've heard the CD5/NAIT-5 and there is a new character to the sound. The very natural resolution of low-level detail and musical flow really surprised me.

The better gear is not embarrased (especially it's sense of scale), but it was immediately obvious to me that these improvements would have to be extended into a new range of full-size gear.

I've heard that someone is using the 112 in preference to the 52 - with SuperCap & NAP500!

cheers, Martin

P.S. I reckon the rest of the industry are getting really worried...

quote:

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I've heard that someone is using the 112 in preference to the 52 - with SuperCap & NAP500!

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is this serious??

will this person please come out of the closet and re-educate us all...

enjoy...

ken

the pre-amp is a rather different beast -- my understanding (shallow...) is that the thrust of the 500 design is in those powerful new transistors and the circuit topology to deliver clean power. a pre-amp will probably have different design considerations (you dont need power transistors for a start, ).

however, this is all speculation. we simply dont know. it would be interesting, very interesting, if a 500-style upgrade to 52, 135 was developed, wouldnt it??

enjoy...

ken