Changing History Education so as not to offend religious groups

Posted by: DAVOhorn on 04 April 2007

dear all,
on the radio here the other night they discussed a recent article in a news paper in the UK regarding the teaching of History in UK schools so that religious groups are not offended by the truth.

Notably the non teaching of the Holocoust and the crusades as this offend Muslims to such an extent that they have resorted to threats of violence to the teachers and the schools. Also there have been incidents between pupils of differeing religions over what is the truth. It seems that the Imams in the mosques are not teaching the truth with regard to History and have put a religious slant to or omit to teach and stating that events DID NOT OCCUR.

A respondent on the radio program was a History teacher here in Sydney and he affirmed that this takes place here in schools. If HISTORY WAS TAUGHT HONESTLY AND ACCURATELY then all hell would break loose amongst the Muslim students their families and the local Mosque. He stated that threats had been made that the school was not to CONTRADICT THE TEACHINGS OF THE IMAMS IN THE MOSQUES.

WHAT THE **** IS GOING ON . ARE WE REALLY GOING TO ALLOW RELIGIOUS BIGOTS TO CHANGE THE HISTORY OF EUROPE PURELY BECAUSE THEY DO NOT LIKE THE TRUTH.

Certainly i have known victims of the Holocaust and they have told me their stories. I had a good education which taught about the 2nd world war and its horrors. My father fought in the 2nd world war. i have read books seen documentaries etc regarding the holocaust. I know friends who have been to the Concentration camps as they had family memebers who had died in the camps.

So what are we to do.

Deal with these Grossly Prejudiced Religious Bigots and protect society from this abhorrent bogotry.?

Or not offend the sensibilities of these bigots as they rewrite history and impose their prejudice on the rest of us.

This religious prejudice and bigotry i find very scary and indeed frightening as the lengths these people will go to to impose their WILL and version of history on us is also frightening.

Regards david
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by bornwina
quote:
Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
quote:
Originally posted by bornwina:
quote:
Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
Depends how "rogue" is defined. Ooops. I should not be going into definitions on this thread!

Fredrik


I rather like 'a deceitful and unreliable scoundrel' - about sums it up IMO


Robin Hood, depending on your standpoint!

Fredrik


Yes, maybe 'decitful and unreliable scumbag' would be more accurate.
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
quote:
Originally posted by Deane F:
But Mike, the only straight answer to a crooked question is no answer at all.


Deane

what are you on about?

I'm sure that somebody with as great an intellect as yours can answer the questions above..
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
For example... now that most of us hace realised "the" refer to the Imams teaching against the Holocaust.

quote:
Originally posted by mike lacey:
Do you feel that they should *not* be vilified for teaching against the Holocaust?
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by Deane F
quote:
Originally posted by mike lacey:

I'm sure that somebody with as great an intellect as yours can answer the questions above..


The mark of great intellect is how questions are framed - not how they are answered.
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
The mark of a great intellect is the ability to answer questions.

The mark of a troll is constant evasions.
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by Deane F
quote:
Originally posted by mike lacey:
The mark of a great intellect is the ability to answer questions.

The mark of a troll is constant evasions.


So now you're calling me a troll?
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by bornwina
quote:
Originally posted by Deane F:
I meant to imply that I found the notion of a "rogue" Iman to be questionable.


Deane, just re read the thread and I missed this point earlier - what are you getting at here?
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
quote:
Originally posted by Deane F:

So now you're calling me a troll?


1. Another evasion, and
2. Yes.
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by Don Atkinson
Dave expressed TWO separate concerns in his opening post.

First, that some schools were being inappropriately selective as to which historical events to include in history and which to exclude.

Second, that some Imans were trying to re-write history itself, eg denying the Holocaust.

It will always be a matter of judgement as to what to include in school history - there is simply too much of it to include it all. IMO the Holocaust should be included for several reasons. These include the fact that it was a massively significant event and there are incredibly significant and wide-ranging lessons that can be learnt from it.

Once a subject is included within a ciriculum, it should be taught honestly - recongising where necessary that we might not be fully sighted of the all the facts and detail - which could be a lesson in itself.

I noticed a report in a newspaper today, that the police and prosecution lawyers are to monitor the preachings of certain Imans.

Might as well confront the dogs since they clearly aren't asleep, as Wallpole (?) might have said.

Cheers

Don
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by Deane F
quote:
Originally posted by mike lacey:
quote:
Originally posted by Deane F:

So now you're calling me a troll?


1. Another evasion, and
2. Yes.


Hmmm. So good to have the voice of pragmatism and reason back on the forum - not that he ever left...

quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Dixon:

<Removes shoes>
<Looks around cautiously>
<Asks in timid voice> Is Mike (forum bully) Lacey in here?
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
evasion.
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by Musk
Haven't visited this bb for a year...same old cr*p ......but didn't Mike Lacey use to be Mallard Portly Duck......I find them equally anoying !
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
quote:
Originally posted by Musk:
Haven't visited this bb for a year


Seven hours, actually.
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by Bob McC
Bloody hell Mike. 2 Arguments going full pelt on 2 forums. How's the blood pressure?
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by Musk
You see that's the sought of obvious juvenile retort I expect from you.......apart from today I haven't been on this board for a year or so.........funny It was people like you and Mallard Duck (If you're not the same ) who made me leave last year !
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by bornwina
Deane,

You seem to have allowed yourself to become emasculated by petty sniping. I absolutely promise I'm not in a room with Mike, Don and a champagne bottle poised to crack open the moment you lower your guard.

What do you think should be done about Muslims leaders who spout these lies? Why is a "rogue" Imam questionable?
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
quote:
Originally posted by bob mccluckie:
Bloody hell Mike. 2 Arguments going full pelt on 2 forums. How's the blood pressure?


Bob

1. I am two seperate gorrilas, and
2. my strength is as the strength of ten because my heart is pure...

Regards

Mike
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by Deane F
quote:
Originally posted by bornwina:
Deane,

You seem to have allowed yourself to become emasculated by petty sniping. I absolutely promise I'm not in a room with Mike, Don and a champagne bottle poised to crack open the moment you lower your guard.

What do you think should be done about Muslims leaders who spout these lies? Why is a "rogue" Imam questionable?


bornwina

I have listed an email address in my profile. You are welcome to email me (as is any member) if you'd like a discussion.

Regards
Deane
Posted on: 05 April 2007 by bornwina
Done
Posted on: 06 April 2007 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
Oh, I was so looking forward to reading Deanes' thoughts.
Posted on: 06 April 2007 by Deane F
Mike

Here is one thought.

No, I don't think any Iman should be outed or vilified for preaching against the Holocaust.

However, I cannot but comment that you did not ask for my thoughts; you asked me a question. When I failed to answer you called me a troll.

You've never got over me refusing your request by Private Message to help you bait and abuse other members who were on "your" thread - saying things you didn't like - have you? (And that was a couple of years ago!)

Deane
Posted on: 06 April 2007 by Deane F
quote:
Originally posted by mike lacey:
Oh, I was so looking forward to reading Deanes' thoughts.


Tut-tut. The apostrophe goes between the 'e' and the 's'. Unless there's more than one of me - which would be handy in the kitchen I must admit...
Posted on: 06 April 2007 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
I suffer from mild dyslexia, Deane. You will find equal amusement in my inability to differentiate "where" from "were".

Its only fair, I still laugh at your explanation of the word "derogate" as being from "derogatory".

Richly comic; there really is no noun that cannot be verbed.
Posted on: 06 April 2007 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
quote:
Originally posted by Deane F:
Mike

Here is one thought.

No, I don't think any Iman should be outed or vilified for preaching against the Holocaust.


You do surprise me here, I find this kind of race hate abhorrent and, if you really are celebrating Peach as you infer earleir, I'm surprised you do too.

quote:
However, I cannot but comment that you did not ask for my thoughts; you asked me a question. When I failed to answer you called me a troll.


I think I asked four or five times, your continued evasions made it a reasonable conclusion to draw. Thanks for answering, though.

quote:
You've never got over me refusing your request by Private Message to help you bait and abuse other members who were on "your" thread - saying things you didn't like - have you? (And that was a couple of years ago!)

Deane


I have no idea what you mean.

Mike
Posted on: 06 April 2007 by Deane F
Mike

I find race hate abhorrent too. What makes you think I don't?

(Think "freedom", Mike. Just a suggestion...)

Deane