Heathrow HiFi Show

Hi

We enjoyed the show but the best system we heard was when we returned home. On the whole the quality of most demos was poor including Naims. It is not allways the gear on dem but the way it was demed, full marks to Totem in this case which was very good.
As I said before the Linn/PMC demo was good, not in sound quality but showing what can be done with DVD-A and SACD. I think Linn have there finger right on the pulse with there new Unidisc player. Its no good hidding under the two channel blanket (Naim included) DVD-A and SACD are comming like it or not.
I think Naims new gear will sell very well, it may not be upgraded with * cap's but it is a step on the Naim ladder.
Naim's main demo would have been improved by losing the NACA5 bellwire and throwing the SL2 speakers out the window IMO.

Colin.

no way Jose

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Originally posted by Colin Ackerman:
throwing the SL2 speakers out the window IMO.

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I believe that's against the law. Ever since 9 / 11 the Heathrow fuzz is pretty strict.

You don't want a plane going down after being hit by a pair of SL2s, you know.

Herman

A speaker naimed after a dodgy train service?

Seriously though folks; the new 'budget' system sounded great.

Another great sound at the show for me was the Neat room (particularly off the Roksan TT).

Nice to meet you, Don and Jawed(?)

Are we mentioning the transit bolt left in the bottom of the CDS3 on dem?

We aren't?

I'll keep that to myself then, Richard.

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A speaker naimed after a dodgy train service?

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Their buses aren't bad and the drivers are usually courteous enough to let me pull out at T junctions

I think it is good that the likes of Rega will now have a bit of competition in the mid-fi market, but that is not a reason to knock what Rega do very well.

Naiming a speaker after a bus company is rather unfortunate, and naiming their new mid-fi range after their entry level hi-fi range with an i added has caused unnecessary panic and confusion amongst existing 5 series Naim owners.

I'd have called it the 4-series meself.

As for the new speaks, iFS, as in intro level floorstanders would have been about right, again imvho.



Regards,

Steve.

[This message was edited by Steven Toy on MONDAY 29 September 2003 at 05:14.]

Colin Ackerman:

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It`s no good hiding under a blanket....SACD and DVDA are coming whether we like it or not

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I am not convinced that the mass market forces that made the introduction of CD so easy, exist for the new formats. Most buyers of music are more than happy with it`s sound, and would be reluctant to junk their music collection for higher sound quality. Many young music enthusiasts I know think MP3 is absolutely fantastic. A 16 year old recently told me that his portable mini-disc player gave a sound that was indistinguishable from CD. When I suggested that this was not the case, he responded with "what do I know about these matters....he is part of the now generation, ...I am part of the was generation"...indeed...he may well have a point! When cheap `orrible record players were the (almost) norm, CD was a godsend. What percieved advantage does SACD & DVDA offer the majority of listeners, other than multi channel?

I think that there is a lot of life left in 44/16 CD, though the audio industry does not really have enough muscle in the optical media industry to really influence the course of events

My own exposure to SACD/DVDA has left me unconvinced that the potential benefits for improved sound are likely to be fully exploited...shame.

Laurie S

[This message was edited by Laurie Saunders on MONDAY 29 September 2003 at 07:47.]

4 Series??

All well and good unless you want to sell anything in the Asian market...

Most of the above exactly reflect my own observations.
The 5i Naim room, with the Arriva speakers, sounded superb; the CDS3/252-300/SL2 system sounded awful. Naim MUST address this problem, especially as other manufacturers DID get a decent sound in some rooms.

Next door to the Naim room were Neat, whose £3k speakers were driven by some modest amps from LFD and the Roksan Xerxes 10/etc which sounded absolutely superb (as in tempted to sell my LP12 and Naims superb).

A few others, including interestingly the Henley room (again with the Roksan Xerxes) were excellent.

Interesting also, was that Meridian are replacing their 500 series with the G series – more multimedia, nicer boxes, same kind of performance level I guess. No sound, though.

Ah yes, that's where I heard of it from - "Arriva Trains". They run trains between Scarborough, York, Manchester and Liverpool; and they are very prone to striking.

Looks like a name-change is in order - for similar reasons to the Vivo/Allaes.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

the CDS3/252-300/SL2 system sounded awful. Naim MUST address this problem, especially as other manufacturers DID get a decent sound in some rooms.

I'm surprised to read this. In my room, which is far from perfect, CDS3/252/300/Mezzo Utopia system sounds fantastic. I have a single 6mm2 spur and use Bedini.

Regards

Emil

I went on Sunday for a cuple of hours and met up with the gang.

Highlights:

1. That cheap Naim system...very cool and funky.
2. That MEGA Neat system...amazing sounds from those speakers.
3. The Naim system next door...very good sounds despite Richard Danes spohisticated music which I am too uncultured for.

Lowlights:

1. The Shun Mook Room
2. Being asked to leave the QUAD room when I asked for some funky music
3. Being asked to leave out of the Shun Mook room when I destroyed the soundstage by standing next to the super ebony resonator (I got a round of applause from the audience)

Other stuff:

1. I challenged the Naim room and the Neat room to a sound-off - a sonic duel to the last capacitor - they refused, I was gutted!

Any, a nice couple of hours on a Sunday good to meet up with friends, etc. See you soon !

regards

Dev

Dev,

Next time shall we go to the Quad room and ask "can it play any louder?".

The Shun Mook incident sounded a classic. Maybe we could bring a lava lamp in next year to improve the Feng Shui?

Tina was quite dismayed that many of the round earth rooms chose to showcase their kit with bad tinkly jazz.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

Very interesting day. Some people could get their kit to sound good, some couldn't. There's no excuse for the SL2 sounding as bad as it does. None. Its a £5k speaker. If you cant get it to work on the end of nearly £20k of your best electronics, it would be better to use a fully run in set of Allaes, or Arrivas.
I was also distinctly underimpressed with the second Naim room too. The use of close miked recorings, jazz quartets, accoustic guitarists etc sounds good on most systems. Once a little diversity was introduced the emperors new clothes fell off. Listening to some rock, Eric Johnson, Peter Gabriel, the systems sounded truely dire.
Steinhardt room - excellent on a variety of classical music, weaker on rock, very enjoyable.
Totem/Rega. Didn't pretend to be a full range system and did a very goog job of playing music.
Neat - these guys know how to make loudspeakers. Enjoyable.
Marantz - SACD sounded quite reasonable, but the CD didn't.

If I was hearing these systems for the first time I would want to revisit these four manufacturers. I wouldn't be looking at Naim.

But I'm a Naim nutter. I know in real rooms Naim sounds fantastic. I've heard lots of kit in home environments and at equal price points Naim electronics is devatastatingly good. I wonder how many people who didn't know Naim will have written them off beacuse they heard them at a hi-fi show.

Noel

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Which Neat speakers were on show?

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The biggest MFs and with a piano black finish.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

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2. That MEGA Neat system...amazing sounds from those speakers.
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I am not going to say I told you so.........!!

What were they being used with? particularly the cables?

The Piano black finish looks stunning!


Regards


NB

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What were they being used with?

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Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

Andrew,

Many thanks,

Regards

NB
(dissapointed he couldn't attend and hear them himself!)

John Channing and I have heard the MF7 and now MF9 under show conditions. I felt the MF7 were a bit polite at bristol with the ECS amps which were not to my taste. The MF9 however were very Naim like, a bit leaner and more flat earth than the MF9, very controlled but with awesome power. Very different to DBL's which are one of my favourite speakers ever, but really worth a good listen. I would really like to do a NBL vs MF9 comparison - I suspect that would be a great dem - but I am skint and can only dream

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I never cease to be amazed at those who salivate over sounds heard at the show.....in my experience, it varies between bad and dreadful.

I wonder what sort of sound these people are listening to at home........

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Laurie, I could not agree more.

I did a HiFi show once, that was enough

Andy.

Sketches of Heathrow

Biggest surprise of the day! - how good the Marantz demo system sounded particularly when playing Stravinsky. Not sure whether the source was CD or SACD, but very impressive and good to listen to.

Second Biggest surprise of the day! - how many more people than last year were using analog TT sources for their demos in preference to CD and how many new TTs there were around - perhaps this vinyl stuff will finally catch on!

Most Impressive Demos
1. Totem/Rega with the P9 TT - excellent dynamics and effortless performance but I'm not sure I could actually live with the rather coloured and relentless pounding bass particularly on anything electronic.
2. New Naim Nait5i and CD5i - outshone the CDS3 demo in the next room, very listenable and offers excellent VFM at £2500 inc the new Arriva 3-way speaker.
3. French Vecteur Integrated Amp and CDP, Quasar TT and Magnar Planar electrostats (UK dist. Sound By Design)
4. Harbeth - as always!

Most Bizarre Product - Jefferson Hill horn speakers in 7mm thick clear acrylic - looking like a see-through bath standing on one end. Sounded interesting though.

Most Sleep-inducing Demo - QUAD - I'm sure this could have been worth listening to, if 'the suits' running it had sufficient interest to get of their bums and put on something more inspiring than 'lift-music'.

Worst Demo of the Day - It was by some big-name manufacturer who should have done better but I can't remember who it was because I didn't stay in the room long enough to find out. Absolutely ghastly - real ear shattering grunge!

Deal of the Day! - Miles Davis 'Sketches of Spain' on brand new 180gm vinyl for just £5, courtesy of Absolute Analog.

Freebie of the Day - Audiophile Candy Snake-Oil catalogue, well put together, informative and an absolute must for any sonic-tweaker.

Most Stylish Carrier Bag - QED (in silver of course!)

Beer of the day! - Boddingtons - when they finally managed to persuade it leave the tap and enter the glass - I've never seen so much froth!

Biggest Rip-Off at the Show! - Ken Kessler's book 'The Closest Approach' - a definitive history of QUAD from the 1930s to the present day for just £50 - what more can I say?

Good Fun day out though - I might even go again next year!

The Neats I heard were the MFS I think at £3k - stand-mounter. Absoultely stunning. I'm sure the Naim electronics are great so it must have been the SL2s.

Harbeth were good too, as were Alon.

I think Roksan will sell a lot of decks and Neat a lot of speakers after this weekend.

quote:

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Originally posted by Colin Ackerman:
Its no good hidding under the two channel blanket (Naim included) DVD-A and SACD are comming like it or not.

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Colin,

FYI, the new DVD player does DVD-A as well.

cheers, Martin

E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com

Whilst it's not brill that the expensive Naim setup was perceved not to perform well at the show, I heard a similar setup perform at the Bristol show, and I thought it was ok. Its never going to be more than ok 'cos its not in the dealers demo room, nor is it in your room (where you are used to the way the room sounds etc).
I realistically wonder how many people would spend that kind of money on a component anyway when not having it on a home demo first etc. Its probably good the budget Naim setup performed better in this respect re 'passing trade'..
PR will probably disagree with me as usual ( )

I went on Sunday and was underwhelmed by most of what I saw.

Best at Show
Naim babies - This sounded great and overall better than the bigger room. I prefer the bass on the new Arrivas but it is nowhere near as tight as with other Naim speakers (Credo included). The CD5i system did get confused when the delicate audiophile CDs were replaced with some decent bands. I like to think that this was the amp/cd player rather than the speakers and I can't wait to have a proper audition.

Worst at Show
Russ Andrews room at the Renaissance. Oh my god - now I've finally heard the worst high end system known to man. All the mains gizmos and interconnects etc. sapped every ounce of life out of the music. It didn't even do some of the hi-fi things properly, sounstage was as narrow as the expensive Naim room (which sounded terrible given its price).

Worth a mention
Quadraspire - Proved nicely that their reference stand is much better than the original.
PMC - For a polished demo and exciting sounds from the Bryston amps.
Overkill - For the 'rippling' loudspeaker.

Neat MF9s easily the best show sound - played anything thrown at them, helped if you didn't sit at the back. Benefited enormously from having top class sources, obviously.

Ponder a moment just how bad a sound is usually produced by a 2.5K CDP, 5K's worth of amps and a 10K speaker.

Alex

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Ponder a moment just how bad a sound is usually produced by a 2.5K CDP, 5K's worth of amps and a 10K speaker.

Alex

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Is that code to vindicate your choice of CD player? Well if you can attribute the sound at a show to a specific component other than the speakers & room, you are the best audio critic known to man. But you and the 'note envelope' brigade are the best listeners right!