SPDIF limitations Naim Dac

Not sure about the hdx, but the Linn Ds range and many soundcards can output 192/24 over Spdif.

I reckon the Sneaky DS (which has the same digital stage as the Majik) used as a transport would be a great partner for the Naim DAC, though I am curious what Naim are going to add to the world of Ethernet to spdif converters.

quote:

Originally posted by Occean:
Not sure about the hdx, but the Linn Ds range and many soundcards can output 192/24 over Spdif.

I reckon the Sneaky DS (which has the same digital stage as the Majik) used as a transport would be a great partner for the Naim DAC, though I am curious what Naim are going to add to the world of Ethernet to spdif converters.

Perhaps a stupid question however are there Ethernet to SPDIF converters presently available? The use of a Sneaky or Majik DS as a source is an interesting proposition considering that Naim do not presently have a streamer (nor rumours of one) and early comments from those who have heard seem to point to a Mac fronting the DAC as inferior to other alternatives.

Gregg

Ethernet and SPDIF don't mix well.

Ethernet is designed to get the data there 100% accurately ... sometime.

SPDIF is designed to get the data there at a specific time / frequency (i.e. 16 bits 44,100 times a second) without worrying about 100% accuracy (no error checking).

A Linn DS (or other similar device) is not an Ethernet to SPDIF converter. You really need to think of a Linn DS as just another computer, just one that is dedicated to a specific task.

Eloise

PS. I know that NaimNet uses Ethernet to transmit digital audio so it can be done.

quote:

Originally posted by Jonb:
Like many I am looking forward to hearing the new Naim Dac as I plan to upgrade my source (logitech transporter) next year.

One thing concerns me about the Dac approach; how will the Dac be abe to play the hi resolution audio files (e.g. 24/192) we are likely to see in the future given it is connected to a device (e.g. HDX) via SPDIF (which I was led to understand is limited to 24/96)?

Jon, while the s/pdif interface may be "officially" limited to 24 bit/96khz, it is capable of handling 24bit/192khz.

quote:

A Linn DS (or other similar device) is not an Ethernet to SPDIF converter.

True, but it is a term often used for a media streamer (or even pc) being used specifically for audio file to spdif conversion.

quote:

Originally posted by Occean:

quote:

A Linn DS (or other similar device) is not an Ethernet to SPDIF converter.

True, but it is a term often used for a media streamer (or even pc) being used specifically for audio file to spdif conversion.

You're right it is a term thats used - however it is (IMO) a very bad term.

The term "converter" to my mind implies something which works in a more passive way - like a TOSLink to Co-ax converter. The other problem is that (I've seen) people refer to a device such as Gefen's device for running SPDIF over UTP / Cat5 cabling as a SPDIF to Ethernet converter as they think of UTP/Cat5 cable as Ethernet (which it's not).

Eloise

quote:

A Linn DS (or other similar device) is not an Ethernet to SPDIF converter. You really need to think of a Linn DS as just another computer, just one that is dedicated to a specific task.

Eloise Hi, what is a Linn streamer ( or sqeezebox ) if it is not an ethernet /to spdif converter, they take the data via ethernet and convert to spdif don't they?

quote:

Originally posted by Eloise:
Ethernet and SPDIF don't mix well.

Ethernet is designed to get the data there 100% accurately ... sometime.

SPDIF is designed to get the data there at a specific time / frequency (i.e. 16 bits 44,100 times a second) without worrying about 100% accuracy (no error checking).

A Linn DS (or other similar device) is not an Ethernet to SPDIF converter. You really need to think of a Linn DS as just another computer, just one that is dedicated to a specific task.

Eloise

PS. I know that NaimNet uses Ethernet to transmit digital audio so it can be done.

Not really. Both need the clock applied. Ethernet at the recieving end before moving on and and sent via S/Pdif and the other has it applied in the same way but without the transmition over the ethernet. Naim chose S/Pdif because the topology reclocks in a unique method anyway so as long as it's quiet etc. all should be good. If it had ethernet it wouldn't have elaborate clocking but instead rely on what's already happening inside to correct jitter and allow their filtering etc. The ethernet signal isn't a recognizable digital stream until it's reconstructed at the recieving end and clock applied and this is the same clock that is sent via SPdif out if used that way. Without some higher form of clocking application in either method there's not much to choose here other than isolation from source noise but that's not a streaming vs SPdif function. In the case of this DAC it may be absolutely moot. We'll see. Getting the signal decoupled from computer mixers and noise has been the theorhetical advantage of streaming. Other than that, there's no advantage and in practice, setup and kit will dictate which is better as there are ways to avoid noise and mixers without an ethernet connection.

HDX is rated for 24/192 and S/Pdif is absolutely 24/192 capable.

The original S/Pdif spec called for it to be 20 bit but with 24 bits available. " S/PDIF can also transport 24-bit samples by way of four extra bits; however, not all equipment supports this, and these extra bits might be ignored." Those have been effective bits in audio kit now for some time and 192 has also always been within the capability of S/Pdif though just not used early on.

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:

quote:

A Linn DS (or other similar device) is not an Ethernet to SPDIF converter. You really need to think of a Linn DS as just another computer, just one that is dedicated to a specific task.

Eloise Hi, what is a Linn streamer ( or sqeezebox ) if it is not an ethernet /to spdif converter, they take the data via ethernet and convert to spdif don't they?

What I mean is that a Linn Streamer (or Squeezebox, etc) is no more an Ethernet to SPDIF converter than any other computer (IMO).

The problem with Ethernet is that the sending device (NAS / Computer / etc) will send the packets out 1 .. 2 .. 3 ... etc, but they may be received 3 ... 1 ... 3 (repeated) ... 2

I suppose it's down to semantics anyway - I just (personally) don't think Ethernet to SPDIF converter is a very good description for a streaming device.

Eloise

I think they can be looked on as that and more as they are also DACs. Like an integrated amp is an amp plus preamp. Useful but no need to be together. Renderer/player/streamer/whatever as long as we know what it does.

It's less of a computer than a playstation and I'd never call that a computer either.

quote:

Originally posted by js:
It's less of a computer than a playstation and I'd never call that a computer either.

It's also more of a computer than a Ethernet print sever ... and I wouldn't call that an Ethernet converter.

Eloise

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Dane:

quote:

Originally posted by Jonb:
Like many I am looking forward to hearing the new Naim Dac as I plan to upgrade my source (logitech transporter) next year.

One thing concerns me about the Dac approach; how will the Dac be abe to play the hi resolution audio files (e.g. 24/192) we are likely to see in the future given it is connected to a device (e.g. HDX) via SPDIF (which I was led to understand is limited to 24/96)?

Jon, while the s/pdif interface may be "officially" limited to 24 bit/96khz, it is capable of handling 24bit/192khz.

Richard. Thanks, great. So does the HDX output full 192/24 via SPDIF to the DAC?

quote:

HDX is rated for 24/192 and S/Pdif is absolutely 24/192 capable.

The original S/Pdif spec called for it to be 20 bit but with 24 bits available. " S/PDIF can also transport 24-bit samples by way of four extra bits; however, not all equipment supports this, and these extra bits might be ignored." Those have been effective bits in audio kit now for some time and 192 has also always been within the capability of S/Pdif though just not used early on.

quote js

quote:

Originally posted by Eloise:

quote:

Originally posted by js:
It's less of a computer than a playstation and I'd never call that a computer either.

It's also more of a computer than a Ethernet print sever ... and I wouldn't call that an Ethernet converter.

Eloise

Or a computer. Like you said, semantics. Streamer or network player to differenciate it from other devices like computers works for me. Similar to why an ethernet print server is called just that. More specialized.

quote:

Originally posted by js:

quote:

Originally posted by Eloise:

quote:

Originally posted by js:
It's less of a computer than a playstation and I'd never call that a computer either.

It's also more of a computer than a Ethernet print sever ... and I wouldn't call that an Ethernet converter.

Eloise

Or a computer. Like you said, semantics. Streamer or network player to differenciate it from other devices like computers works for me. Similar to why an ethernet print server is called just that. More specialized.

Thats true JS. I think I should stop while the hole is big enough for me to stand in but still see over the top.