Big Fat Xmas B*stard

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Originally posted by James:
Perspiration and water loss through breathing ...

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If I were sweating off a pound of water overnight, wouldn't you expect my sheets to be damper in the morning?

I suspect that it's more than water loss. When you consider that we inhale oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide, the carbon atoms required to bond with the lost oxygen must weigh something. I just wonder whether we keep more mass in oxygen than we give up in carbon dioxide.

There must be somebody who has the answer to this dilemma!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

While pondering the answer to this dilemma it occurred to me that if I slept all the way to xmas I would lose the required weight and wake up skinny again, thus avoiding bad breath syndrome, kidney disease and potential wind issues.

However a proper scientific explanation of the overnight weight loss situation is still required....

Spock

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Originally posted by Mike Sae:

I figured that sleep is time spent out of the Matrix, and at that time our bodies are extracted of its useful nutrients.

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Protein is best harvested shortly before or after sleep.

take a look at the "blood type diet" that has you eating certain foods based on your blood type and supposed genetic makeup for your bodies ability to process certain foods better. Also must second the water and at least some light exercise. I also note that I eat like a pig when I am simply bored. My yoga buddy friends used to always say we should never eat more than we can hold in our cupped hands (no stacking), of course we prefered drinking anyway.....hope this helps a little.

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If I were sweating off a pound of water overnight, wouldn't you expect my sheets to be damper in the morning?

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Humans lose a minimum of 700ml of water through breathing and perspiration on a daily basis. Spend 8 hours under a nice warm duvet and you can almost expect to wake up at least 250g or half a pound lighter.

The funny thing about perspiration is that you are doing it without realising it. That's how your body regulates its temperature when you are nice and warm under covers. If you don't believe me, try weighing a brand new mattress before you sleep on it, and then weigh it a few days after.

James

Although metabolic rate slows overnight you still use a signficant number of calories at rest, metabolising stored glycogen and/or fat as you do so. This generates heat-keeping you nice and warm as it does. We generate heat at the rate of approx 1Kw/hr if my memory serves.

You'll therefore lose weight overnight if you do not take in any calories to compensate.

Relative dehydration is not just through sweating but also respiration as exhaled air has a high water content.

May also be the issue of wether you weigh yourself before or after a trip to the bathroom...

Bruce

So James estimates an overnight sleep to account for roughly half a pound in water loss through perspiration and moisture in exhalations. Add to that another pound (at most) of urination. That brings us to a total of 1.5 pounds, which is the minimum that I would drop overnight. However, I'm often dropping 2 or even 2.5 pounds as I sleep.

I'm still hoping for a salient estimation of mass of oxygen input versus carbon dioxyde output.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Mass O2 vs CO2 is not the issue. The body 'stores' oxygen only in solution, bound to haemoglobin, and ditto CO2 is in solution. Lung volume is a constant essentially, these are trivial masses!

You have broken down fuel overnight so have metabolised carbohydate and fat (which is heavy) into water, some excreted soluble metabolites and heat. The heat and water are largely lost, so weight is lost. Sleep is an 8 hour zero calorie diet.

Bruce

Having woken up recently and discovered that I was now in my late 20s, I realised that I couldn't continue with the diet of a teenager (you know, the "eat what you like and play sport for 3 hours a day" attitude to food intake).

I am now much more concious of the need to control what goes in because my lifestyle doesn't allow so much control over what goes out. However, the SO and I decided to follow the Weght Watchers regime (online - no way I'm going to a meeting) while doing extra little things to help (using stairs instead of lifts in the office).

The effect of "eat less, move around more" without "crash" dieting meant that we lost weight while maintianing a balanced diet. I admit that i've let it slip recently because of work (although the advantage to being busy in the office is one doesn't always have enough time to eat).

Anyway, as an aside, does anyone have a reliable means of measuring "ideal" weight (i.e. not BMI)?

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Originally posted by Bruce Woodhouse:
Mass O2 vs CO2 is not the issue. The body 'stores' oxygen only in solution, bound to haemoglobin, and ditto CO2 is in solution. Lung volume is a constant essentially, these are trivial masses!

You have broken down fuel overnight so have metabolised carbohydate and fat (which is heavy) into water, some excreted soluble metabolites and heat. The heat and water are largely lost, so weight is lost. Sleep is an 8 hour zero calorie diet.

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Other than the fact that heat doesn't weight anything, I think you're largely correct here (says Mike, who lost another two pounds during sleep last night).

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

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Originally posted by Tom F:
Anyway, as an aside, does anyone have a reliable means of measuring "ideal" weight (i.e. not BMI)?

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Yes, I realize that BMI assumes a person with an average frame (Fraim?) and average muscle mass. The only proper way is to go to a specialist, who performs various measurements of fat on your body, might even do a immersion test to determine your body density IIRC, and other esoteric stuff. Of course, this procedure helps you to determine how much body fat you have, and not necessarily your ideal weight.

The problem I had with the basic BMI was it's extreme range. My acceptable weight was something like 132-174 lbs, which is pretty much useless (except if you happen to be outside that range, I suppose). I found a website that added a few more options to the game, helping me to zero in on 160 lbs as my likely "ideal" weight. However, now that I look at it again, it would seem that I could revise my goal down to 155. Check it out here: www.halls.md/ideal-weight/body.htm

Coincidentally, I'm at 166 pounds now, and I'm going to see my doctor this Thursday. I'll probably lose another pound by then, so I can ask him whether it's reasonable to lose another 5-10 pounds.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

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Sleep is an 8 hour zero calorie diet.

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Interesting. I've recently read @ bbc.co.uk that there was a study done on the myth about never eating before sleep. Apparently they found no correlation between eating before bed and weight gain.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3263249.stm

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The message: He can eat anything he damn well pleases, while everyone still enjoys the treat of seeing his penis for the first time.

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I just want to say the whole penis thing has been blown way out of proportion (woof)

I have never laughed so much as this thread, where does all that weight go in the night!

I have frequently weighed myself of a night time then come the next morning I am sometimes 3 pounds lighter, I checked the bed a realised that I didn't mess myself which was nice.
There is no way on gods green earth that I put around 3 litres of water into the bed in the form of sweat, so what is the answer.

On a more unnerving note I have weighed myself before and after taking a crap, and usualy there is little to no difference, and I tells ya I am no slouch when it comes to number 2s.

I think its just some sort of conspiracy thing, I am off to the fridge for yet another cool stella, no fat in there, its liquid you see?

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where does all that weight go in the night!

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As condensation on your windows on a cold morning.

James

I am sticking at 14 stone and have enrolled in a gym and I am aiming for 12 stone which was my weight when I was in my late thirties.

I am going to do 3 sessions a week and have enlisted the services of a personal trainer which should keep me motivated.

I hope to look better (if that is possible), feel better and live longer. I have just thought that paying to go to the gym is a long term investment as I should, in theory, draw my pension for longer.

I will let you know if this regeime works.

Regards

Mick

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Check it out here: www.halls.md/ideal-weight/body.htm

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Cheers Mike. Will have a look and find out the awful truth.....

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Originally posted by garyi:
I have frequently weighed myself of a night time then come the next morning I am sometimes 3 pounds lighter .... There is no way on gods green earth that I put around 3 litres of water into the bed in the form of sweat

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Actually, 3 pounds of water would be less than one-and-a-half litres (1.3608, to be specific). Even so, it still seems like a LOT of water.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

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On a more unnerving note I have weighed myself before and after taking a crap, and usualy there is little to no difference, and I tells ya I am no slouch when it comes to number 2s.

I think its just some sort of conspiracy thing

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Well, I tried this trick this morning and to my astonishment I actualy weighed 1 pound more post No2. Dodgy bathroom scales could be one explanation, although I prefer the conspiracy theory. I think the only sure method is to weigh the No2 separetly but that's a whole new thread in the making....

Spock.

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Originally posted by Spock:
Well, I tried this trick this morning and to my astonishment I actualy weighed 1 pound more post No2. Dodgy bathroom scales could be one explanation, although I prefer the conspiracy theory. I think the only sure method is to weigh the No2 separetly but that's a whole new thread in the making....

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I meant to do this today (weigh myself before and after), but I forgot. My regular routine involves working each day in my office, and within a couple of hours, things usually happen. On weekends, however, this routine is broken. Consequently, I often don't relieve myself for the two days, leading to a rather large unencumbrance on Monday.

Although this would seem to be an opportune time to determine the actual heft of this particular bodily output (due to the larger mass lessening the impact of the imprecision of my bathroom scales), it's not quite that easy. It's rather hard to unload three days worth of waste creation efforts during one session, and I usually end up visiting the facilities four or more times throughout the day.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-


[This message was edited by Mike Hanson on MONDAY 24 November 2003 at 20:42.]

Mike:

You're full of shit.

Alan

Only on sundays, apparently.

But really, what kind of activities are you engaged in that you forget to crap for 2 days?

Do you spend your weekends on a NASA centrifuge or something?

Please stop, it hurts too much.

Thanks guys that's the best laugh I've had in quite a while.

Must be something about Canadian's .... sick bastards.

.... and I'm supprised that nobody has sallied forth with the questionable aside of - I seem to be lighter, but my wife is complaining of being heavier in the morning.....groan....

ok, I will now return to my place under the rock....

regards,

michael

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Originally posted by Mike Sae:
But really, what kind of activities are you engaged in that you forget to crap for 2 days?

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I'm not sure, but I think I'm too active (i.e. moving around) for it to become pressing. This even applies if I go on an all-day driving trip. IOW, sitting in the car driving is not the same as sitting at my desk typing. After a few days, my body adapts to the new situation (e.g. 1-week vacation), but it doesn't adapt quickly enough for me to expunge on Sunday (and it has nothing to do with my religion, or lack thereof). Of course, if I spend Sunday morning working at my desk...

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

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Originally posted by mykel:
.... and I'm supprised that nobody has sallied forth with the questionable aside of - I seem to be lighter, but my wife is complaining of being heavier in the morning.....groan....

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In case you didn't know, my wife's pregnant (expecting Feb 2nd). Since I'm losing and she's gaining, she keeps accusing me of hooking up a pump each night to transfer the fat from me to her.

I realize this isn't quite what you meant.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

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Originally posted by Mick Parry:
I am sticking at 14 stone and have enrolled in a gym and I am aiming for 12 stone which was my weight when I was in my late thirties.

I am going to do 3 sessions a week and have enlisted the services of a personal trainer which should keep me motivated.

I hope to look better (if that is possible), feel better and live longer. I have just thought that paying to go to the gym is a long term investment as I should, in theory, draw my pension for longer.

I will let you know if this regeime works.

Regards

Mick

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Mick - I hope you negotiated the possibility of a refund if you find that you don't maintain the habit of going to the gym over a set period .

I could have given you a leaflet that we've shown to create immediate increase in exercise motivation as well as increased reported exercise behaviour compared to a control group over a 4-6 week period. The same format has been shown to work over a 1 year period in other areas, but sadly I don't have the resources to evaluate mine over that length of time. For what little it is worth, using my own research tools on myself, I lost nigh on 20kg in the first six months. I've settled at 77kg (I'm 6'2).

BTW, last night I went to dinner with Dr Jane Ogden, the researcher who's been on the BBC programmes and in The Guardian slagging off the Atkins diet. She's got some interesting ideas about the relationship between dieting behaviour and consequent weight regain, and the psychological processes that make Atkins so effective (in terms of weight loss) in the short term. I am tempted to come up with a 'Mekon diet' book, see if I can make some money out of it.

[This message was edited by Mekon on TUESDAY 25 November 2003 at 11:25.]